GDT #95: July 13, 2014 Braves (Teheran) @ Cubs (Not Our Wood) 2:20 EST
- Thread starter nsacpi
- Start date
BremanFan88
Playing the Waiting Game
A bit more? How about at all. He's flat out terrible and his OBP is a joke. The fact that the Braves flirted with putting him in the 2 hole is crazy. CJ has a fluke season and you think that earns him some kind of pass for going back to being the same terrible player he's always been. He put two fluke games together where he shows some power that once again he's not capable of sustaining and people want to jump back on that bandwagon. I've never seen a player in the majors that didn't at least have one tool they can fall back on. CJ has half a tool because this so called "good contact hitter" falls apart when you strikeout over 25% of the time. We need a new 3B asap.
Tapate50
Well-known member
He isn't far from Simmons. He has improved immensely lately but still is barely over .300 obp (Simmons)
yeezus
It's OVER 5,000!
With a key difference being Simmons is an elite defensive SS while CJ is poor at 3B.
yeezus
It's OVER 5,000!
CJ has been a bad player this year. All the stats I posted earlier clearly show that. Perhaps he'll improve, though his BABIP is already at .354, so it's not like he's been unlucky. He is bottom barrel in almost every key stat for NL 3B this year. I'm rooting for him. But he's been bad.
yeezus
It's OVER 5,000!
Again:
Full season, he's last in the NL in WAR. Last in wRC+. 2nd to last in ISO. Last in OBP. Last in BB%. 2nd worst K%. Last in SLG%.
This is among NL 3B. All while playing average defense (if you want to be very generous). Sorry, I don't see a good player. He's not the guy he was last year. I hope he gets back to it, but I won't hold my breath.
Full season, he's last in the NL in WAR. Last in wRC+. 2nd to last in ISO. Last in OBP. Last in BB%. 2nd worst K%. Last in SLG%.
This is among NL 3B. All while playing average defense (if you want to be very generous). Sorry, I don't see a good player. He's not the guy he was last year. I hope he gets back to it, but I won't hold my breath.
Tapate50
Well-known member
So what you are saying that elite defense at a vital position and very little bat still has tremendous value ?
I can't LOL hard enough.
yeezus
It's OVER 5,000!
Give me a break, dude. Bethancourt's bat isn't even close to Simmons' yet, and that's saying something. He's also not a proven elite defender at the ML level. Talk to me when Bethancourt SNIFFS a 4.6 WAR season.
Simmons takes more walks (and he ain't a walker), hits for more power (...), and hits for a higher average. But yeah, they're similar players. Again, when Bethancourt has a 4.6 WAR season, you have a point. Until then, you're still way off.
Tapate50
Well-known member
But you are saying having an elite defender with an avg bat (which at 650 being a top 10-12 at C would be BETTER than avg) . Wouldn't have great value? Is this correct? Can't be!
Oh my Goodness at the lulz
Oh look an edit
yeezus
It's OVER 5,000!
Is Christian Bethancourt a .650 OPS hitter right now? Does he play elite ML catcher right now?
Again, talk to me when he puts up a 4.6 WAR season. He has a LONG way to go until he's in Simmons' stratosphere - with the bat AND glove.
A .650 OPS does not make for an average NL catcher last year, by the way. I suggest actually looking at numbers before making a fool of yourself - thanks.
And I'll say it, AGAIN, so make sure you read it this time: A team would not value Bethancourt all that highly in a trade. The Braves would try and sell the rosy view you have, but RIGHT NOW (as in, not 3 or 4 years from now) he's a guy that might play elite defense (MIGHT - scouting reports talk of his rocket arm, but also say he can be sloppy back there) and has pretty much no bat, WHATSOEVER, at the moment. I'm so sorry if you disagree, but the stats prove it. Try looking at them
yeezus
It's OVER 5,000!
Simmons is a better ML hitter than CB has been in the minors. LOL. And he also had one of the best defensive seasons of ALL-TIME last year. LOL. Again, you have NO numbers to back up your stance. NONE. CB is a long shot to be even average offensively. You're basing your opinion on what you feel, I'm basing mine on numbers, trends, and odds. CB has been a NEGATIVE WAR player in his time so far because his bat is so bad. It has a long, long, long way to go. I'm sorry you can't see that. A LOT of people do, though. So, good luck.
Tapate50
Well-known member
Y u mad bro?
yeezus
It's OVER 5,000!
TURBO
Sexist Pig
I love this response in arguments. Basically it means I have nothing else to say, so I will come back with a phrase that every 16 year old uses. Too funny
Tapate50
Well-known member
I heard it here a lot. I though it was a Bryce Harper original. What u get for being hip with the kids. No reason to hash out the same argument in another thread. I'm sure KL doesn't want that.
I like seein yeez eat his own words not an hour apart, and then see him flip.
I couldn't go to bed without my internet points for the day.
Tapate50
Well-known member
I'd only be mad if I had an opinion that I couldn't back up with any facts
Right. One instance top d and no bat has value, and another, it doesn't . At defensive important positions ranking as the most important probably.
Especially with how offensively challenged C is across the league. Gerald laird has carved out a nice career for cryin out loud.
yeezus
It's OVER 5,000!
You're just really far off and you can't legitimately respond to anything I said. You think CB and Simmons are equals defensively and offensively, and Simmons is superior in both by a good amount. They are not the same player.
Tapate50
Well-known member
No, they aren't. We agree!
I find them as similar cases for value. If CB realizes an ounce of his talent (still young) then they would be similar hitters at different premium defensive positions. Mostly glove players where anything you get from the bat (650 ops for example) is gravy and looked at as a solid player. Still time for both to improve though , I don't see either of them at their full potential yet. 4.6 war is far from the norm for Simmons so far, and looking like a healthy outlier with something in the 2.5 range being the norm .
yeezus
It's OVER 5,000!
Simmons is a far superior player to CB right now. They are not similar in value. How do you even think that's a question?
Do you want to compare CB to Laird? Ok then. I think CB will have a long ML career. That doesn't mean his bat will develop. Right now it's well, well below average.