GDT #95: July 13, 2014 Braves (Teheran) @ Cubs (Not Our Wood) 2:20 EST

Tapate50 said:
No, they aren't. We agree.
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Then why are you comparing what I said about CB to what I said about Simmons? They are very different players right now value wise. Simmons had the 3rd highest WAR among SS last year. CB wouldn't sniff the 3rd highest C WAR. So what is your point?It's a long shot CB is ever as good or valuable as Simmons was last year. He has a long way to go to be as valuable as Simmons is right now if he ever does it.
 
yeezus said:
Give me a break, dude. Bethancourt's bat isn't even close to Simmons' yet, and that's saying something. He's also not a proven elite defender at the ML level. Talk to me when Bethancourt SNIFFS a 4.6 WAR season.

Simmons takes more walks (and he ain't a walker), hits for more power (...), and hits for a higher average. But yeah, they're similar players. Again, when Bethancourt has a 4.6 WAR season, you have a point. Until then, you're still way off.
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I wonder CY would come here and call you an idiot, like he did me when I questioned anything about CB and his supposed elite defense?

I know the answer, he likes you, he hates me so he will pass on telling you that you are wrong. Facts be damned.
 
AerchAngel said:
I wonder CY would come here and call you an idiot, like he did me when I questioned anything about CB and his supposed elite defense?

I know the answer, he likes you, he hates me so he will pass on telling you that you are wrong. Facts be damned.
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Haha who's CY?
 
yeezus said:
Simmons is a far superior player to CB right now. They are not similar in value. How do you even think that's a question?

Do you want to compare CB to Laird? Ok then. I think CB will have a long ML career. That doesn't mean his bat will develop. Right now it's well, well below average.
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Comparing a rookie in his first cup of coffee and a three year vet are hardly be same thing. C'mon dude.

Loud noises !
 
Tapate50 said:
Comparing a rookie in his first cup of coffee and a three year vet are hardly be same thing. C'mon dude.

Loud noises !
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That is exactly what I'm saying. I don't think Bethancourt is there yet. I don't think he's even close. It's a long shot he ever ends up that valuable. His bat has a long way to go to be even at Simmons' level. It's not likely he gets there. The two players are not comparable, so what I said is completely valid. You came in here and compared what I said about Simmons vs. CJ to Bethancourt vs. Simmons. Simmons is a far different player right now than CB. It's far from a guarantee that CB ever becomes that valuable. So, what's your point?
 
Tapate50 said:
Comparing a rookie in his first cup of coffee and a three year vet are hardly be same thing. C'mon dude.

Loud noises !
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No, he is telling the truth. We all think he is should be an elite defender and he hasn't been but he can get better with more seasoning. He supposedly had a gun on his arm but yet no one respect it now. He is very good at blocking but he already has 3 PB in 11 games, Gattis is an average and I being generous when I say that, catcher, and has 3 all year.

People will make excuses to defend a player, that is the nature of this board. I don't, period. You back up your play with stats. Eye candy will only get you so far.

Loud noises does not trump hard core stats.
 
AerchAngel said:
No, he is telling the truth. We all think he is should be an elite defender and he hasn't been but he can get better with more seasoning. He supposedly had a gun on his arm but yet no one respect it now. He is very good at blocking but he already has 3 PB in 11 games, Gattis is an average and I being generous when I say that, catcher, and has 3 all year.

People will make excuses to defend a player, that is the nature of this board. I don't, period. You back up your play with stats. Eye candy will only get you so far.

Loud noises does not trump hard core stats.
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I'm not sure who he is.
But yeah, I mean it's silly to compare CB and Simmons. CB's bat just has way too long to go before he's there, and so does his defense at this point. Just not as long.
 
yeezus said:
That is exactly what I'm saying. I don't think Bethancourt is there yet. I don't think he's even close. It's a long shot he ever ends up that valuable. His bat has a long way to go to be even at Simmons' level. It's not likely he gets there. The two players are not comparable, so what I said is completely valid. You came in here and compared what I said about Simmons vs. CJ to Bethancourt vs. Simmons. Simmons is a far different player right now than CB. It's far from a guarantee that CB ever becomes that valuable. So, what's your point?
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That in three years we may have a very similar player on our hands if one develops (and not expecting a ml finished product as you are in their first 30 ABs on offense or defense). That has value. Plenty of it.
 
Tapate50 said:
Man you really shouldn't hold onto stuff like that . I'm sure he doesn't.
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Then don't call a person an idiot when said person has stats to back it up. When you say my eyes says you an idiot, makes you immature.

I called him a boy because he acted like one when I brought up stats that backed up my claim.

He never liked me and that is fine.
 
Tapate50 said:
That in three years we may have a very similar player on our hands if one develops (and not expecting a ml finished product as you are in their first 30 ABs on offense or defense). That has value. Plenty of it.
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Right. Maybe. Based on facts and numbers, it's a long shot he becomes that good. They aren't made every day. A lot of guys play great defense and aren't Simmons.
 
AerchAngel said:
I wonder CY would come here and call you an idiot, like he did me when I questioned anything about CB and his supposed elite defense?

I know the answer, he likes you, he hates me so he will pass on telling you that you are wrong. Facts be damned.
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Apples and oranges, brother. The argument he is making is not the same argument I was having with you. And you know it. So, stop bringing up the past in completely unrelated threads.
 
CyYoung31 said:
Apples and oranges, brother. The argument he is making is not the same argument I was having with you.
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No it isn't.

Fact is, he has not done what we have expected yet, they don't respect his arm or his bat. Facts are facts. He has time to improve but I don't think it will be with us.
 
AerchAngel said:
No it isn't.

Fact is, he has not done what we have expected yet, they don't respect his arm or his bat. Facts are facts. He has time to improve but I don't think it will be with us.
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Moving the goal posts again I see. Yeezus is making the argument that Bethancourt isn't on the same level as Simmons in, not just defense, but all around game. You were saying that Bethancourt simply wasn't a good defensive player at all. Apples and oranges, brother.
 
CyYoung31 said:
Moving the goal posts again I see. Yeezus is making the argument that Bethancourt isn't on the same level as Simmons in, not just defense, but all around game. You were saying that Bethancourt simply wasn't a good defensive player at all. Apples and oranges, brother.
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umm there you go again, putting words in my mouth.

I said he is not a good defensive player RIGHT NOW like people thought he should be and I said, HE CAN IMPROVE with more seasoning.

You are the one moving goal posts, not me. Dan is saying the same thing but you hate me and like him so you decide to questioned me when I brought up stats to back up what I said and I did say he can improve with time.

So................................
 
AA, your original argument explicitly said that Bethancourt wasn't a good defensive player at all. That is what me and others justifiably took issue with, along with you using ridiculously small sample sizes to try and support your point. It was only after you realized you made an ill-advised comment in the heat of the moment that you changed your argument to the current one (which is still a stance that's way too soon to have). This is the last time I'm going to restate this. You can continue to bring it up randomly if you want, but you'll be arguing with yourself. Or, you can let it go. It's your choice.
 
CyYoung31 said:
AA, your original argument explicitly said that Bethancourt wasn't a good defensive player at all. That is what me and others justifiably took issue with, along with you using ridiculously small sample sizes to try and support your point. It was only after you realized you made an ill-advised comment in the heat of the moment that you changed your argument to the current one (which is still a stance that's way too soon to have). This is the last time I'm going to restate this. You can continue to bring it up randomly if you want, but you'll be arguing with yourself. Or, you can let it go. It's your choice.
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Us blacks are use to "just let it go", I am not going to let it go. Dan said in several posts that CB is not an elite defensive catcher and I said the same (his track record does no proceed the talk about his defense) but yet you would tell a black "you are an idiot" and just ignore what he said. Don't call blacks idiots when we bring up stats to back up our position. You also said, " I only reserve the word "idiot" for me, you said it I didn't and that implies you hate me, maybe because I am black, we will never know, but the bottom line is this, if you hate me so much, just don't respond to any of my posts. I know you hate me that is why I never respond to yours. If we agree to that, then I will move on. Don't call me names, which I never called you one until you started it, then we are square.
 
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