Troop surges will do that. Shame we had to send more back in than were there before the evacuation.
Here is hoping to a smooth and orderly transfer. We are all rooting for America.
Global Events & Politics Überthread
- Thread starter Hawk
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Troop surges will do that. Shame we had to send more back in than were there before the evacuation.
Here is hoping to a smooth and orderly transfer. We are all rooting for America.
striker42
Well-known member
[tw]1427952278409859075[/tw]
The interview with the Afghanis trying to get out is heartbreaking. I felt ashamed as an American watching it.
People have tried to criticize Clarissa Ward's coverage at times but she's been out in the thick of it. It's real journalism of the kind you see far too infrequently now.
57Brave
Well-known member
There were no good options.
Had there been we wouldn't have been mired there 20 years
He will be held accountable. There are 3 or 4 planned Senate inquiries as we speak.
Covering (according to my reading) not only the last few days but the decisions that brought us to these last few days
Not only Biden, Trump, Obama and Bush 43 administrations decisions but Clinton and Reagan/Bush41.
My reading also tells me the Clinton administration aided the infancy of Taliban. Both with money and arms
All led by (D) Senators
So Clinton caused the housing crisis and the Taliban?
Wow the best D president of the last 50 years left a great legacy.
57Brave
Well-known member
Of course it is. The interviews with Cubans in trying to flee in 1960 were heartbreaking.
The interviews with Vietnamese trying to escape Saigon in 1975 were heartbreaking
The interviews with Iraqis trying to escape Baghdad in 2003 were heartbreaking
I am sure there wee German interviews in 1945 that were heartbreaking
We lost and they won.
That is war.
Which is my point. We should not be entering conflicts unless we are prepared to live with these outcomes
striker42
Well-known member
And I absolutely agree that there needs to be a postmortem of the entire situation going back even before our invasion. I think that's great. I encourage true thorough and sifting bipartisan investigations into things like this. We need to learn from our mistakes.
I just don't see any reason to not criticize Biden for failing to foresee the collapse of the Afghan government, for failing to have contingencies in place for that, and for failing to get our people and people who helped us out earlier.
57Brave
Well-known member
Dont you think if they could have they would have ?
I mean, do you think they woke up one morning and decided to evacuate Kabul the same way you or I would decide whether to go get donuts or stay home and make pancakes ?
Biden said as much in his statement, they misjudged the situation.
It moved faster than they anticipated
What am I or you or anyone to add to that ?
For what?
People are being evacuated as we speak.
That is all that can be done.
Unless we are less interested in the humanitarian aspects and more interested in the US political aspects
///////
Answer me this, how long would it have taken for a so called "orderly evacuation" ?
Do you really think rural Taliban would have stood by and watched ?
The military folded, the government fled.
How was this going to happen.
Again, we were being booted out. Given the bums rush
Not politely asked to leave
///
and what was our leverage ---- more military ?
I mean, do you think they woke up one morning and decided to evacuate Kabul the same way you or I would decide whether to go get donuts or stay home and make pancakes ?
Biden said as much in his statement, they misjudged the situation.
It moved faster than they anticipated
What am I or you or anyone to add to that ?
For what?
People are being evacuated as we speak.
That is all that can be done.
Unless we are less interested in the humanitarian aspects and more interested in the US political aspects
///////
Answer me this, how long would it have taken for a so called "orderly evacuation" ?
Do you really think rural Taliban would have stood by and watched ?
The military folded, the government fled.
How was this going to happen.
Again, we were being booted out. Given the bums rush
Not politely asked to leave
///
and what was our leverage ---- more military ?
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Its been reported that this regime specifically did not listen to warnings from his own intelligence community.
What are you talking about?
In this example they were right. Just calling balls and strikes as I see them.
striker42
Well-known member
My problem is not standing behind our promise to get them out safely. We got a lot of cooperation on the promise that we'd keep these people safe from reprisal. We need to be doing whatever we can to keep our word on that.
57Brave
Well-known member
57Brave
Well-known member
of course we do. This is war ...
and what happens when you lose
you relinqish the right to make the rules or conditions
striker42
Well-known member
When you lose because you can't do anything, you lose the right to make the rules or conditions. When you lose because you don't want to continue, then you still make the rules and conditions.
We could topple the Taliban in no time if we wanted to. We have that power. That means if we abandon our promises it was a choice.
57Brave
Well-known member
we didnt topple the Taliban
There were the same sentiments about Viet Nam, if only we ...
Are you suggesting another 20 years ?
....
It is immaterial how you lose, that is up to the Stephen A Smiths, Sean Hannitys and yes Rachel Maddows of the world
Joe Biden or Donald Trump didnt have that luxury
There were the same sentiments about Viet Nam, if only we ...
Are you suggesting another 20 years ?
....
It is immaterial how you lose, that is up to the Stephen A Smiths, Sean Hannitys and yes Rachel Maddows of the world
Joe Biden or Donald Trump didnt have that luxury
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its immaterial to hand over state of the art weaponry to your enemy
its immaterial that we left thousands of american citizens behind
its immatieral we waited until fighting season to leave
its immaterial that our 'President' didn't listen to his own advisors telling him of the weakness of the Afghan military
What a clown.
its immaterial that we left thousands of american citizens behind
its immatieral we waited until fighting season to leave
its immaterial that our 'President' didn't listen to his own advisors telling him of the weakness of the Afghan military
What a clown.
striker42
Well-known member
The Taliban spent the last 20 years in exile. We could send them back into exile at any time. Call it toppling or not. The result is the same.
I'm not suggesting 20 more years in Afghanistan. I'm suggesting we do what it takes to get the people we made promises to out. We're leaving by choice so if we leave people behind, we're leaving them behind because it's our choice.
57Brave
Well-known member
The side we backed quit and fled.
That is what topple is
Castro hid in the hills for 10 years before ousting Batista.
Not sure your point.
You seem to be looking for order where there is no order.
//
If I am not mistaken, Genghis Kahn was the last to win in Afghanistan
???????
Are you suggesting we conduct war as ruthlessly as he ?
That is what topple is
Castro hid in the hills for 10 years before ousting Batista.
Not sure your point.
You seem to be looking for order where there is no order.
//
If I am not mistaken, Genghis Kahn was the last to win in Afghanistan
???????
Are you suggesting we conduct war as ruthlessly as he ?
striker42
Well-known member
I'm not sure where you're even getting this. All I'm suggesting is that we should have been evacuating much earlier and should have had a presence in Afghanistan capable of ensuring we could get the people out that we need to. Then, once we've evacuated people, we leave in an orderly fashion.
We had the power to make this happen and still do. So make no mistake, if we leave people behind at the mercy of the Taliban then that was our choice to do so. It's not something we're forced to live with because we lost a war. It's a result of how we chose to leave.