Jaw
It's OVER 5,000!
Yes, I am certain the Nation and other ideologues are working hard to deflect the blame for an incompetent withdrawal.
Global Events & Politics Überthread
- Thread starter Hawk
- Start date
Yes, I am certain the Nation and other ideologues are working hard to deflect the blame for an incompetent withdrawal.
57Brave
Well-known member
History teaches us there is always the thing before the thing
Always
//
Science teaches us that for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction
Every
///
Religion teaches us
Vengeance is mine ...
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we spent 20 years and kazillions of dollars over 19 men with box cutters
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we lost --- we dont get to write the ending
Jaw
It's OVER 5,000!
Yep. Our political leaders continue making the same mistakes, they set (impossible) political goals instead of setting combat objectives.
If the goal had been to decapitate AQ, smack Taliban around for sheltering them, and generally lessen their threat level for a generation, we would have been out faster than Malleable Joe can make little girls uncomfortable.
Instead we went for some nonsensical objective of installing a government and ideology that is incompatible with the Afghan culture.
Our military dominated. Our politicians failed them, us, and our Afghan allies.
Thing before the thing. Spoken like a true Rachel maddow follower.
I wonder if 57 can explain what going into Afghanistan has to do with leaving state or the art weaponry for the taliban to confiscate?
I wonder if he could explain despite recommendations to begin evacuation months ago we waited until the last second.
I wonder if he could explain why they thought it made sense to leave the country during fighting season?
I know it’s these details that you want to avoid like the plague. History won’t forget and the American people won’t forget after we sweep your idiotic political ideology out of DC.
I wonder if he could explain despite recommendations to begin evacuation months ago we waited until the last second.
I wonder if he could explain why they thought it made sense to leave the country during fighting season?
I know it’s these details that you want to avoid like the plague. History won’t forget and the American people won’t forget after we sweep your idiotic political ideology out of DC.
57Brave
Well-known member
this
striker42
Well-known member
This is a terrible argument. It's a play on the logical fallacy of the false dilemma. We have to either focus on what got us in there or focus on the fiasco of the withdrawal. It's not a binary choice. We are more than capable of acknowledging the failure that was nation building in Afghanistan while also acknowledging the failure that was the withdrawal.
This argument is the last refuge of someone who doesn't want to confront the fact that a politician they support screwed up. There's no defense of how the withdrawal is playing out. There's plenty of blame to go around but the Biden administration definitely screwed up and that should be addressed. I've actually been impressed with the number of Democrats who have publicly criticized the President's handling of the withdrawal. I don't think there would have been as many Republicans criticizing Trump had this happened on his watch (and I think it would have played out the same with Trump).
Biden fumbled the ball on this one. There's no doubt about that. He needs to wear it and stop trying to refocus attention on the decision to withdraw being correct and stop trying to deflect the blame. It's a weak look. Wear it, say we're going to do everything in our nation's considerable power to evacuate people safely, and say you won't make the same mistake again.
I think people would like to say that this would have happened under Trump but we just don't know. Its another talking point to shift away from the unique debacle that we are witnessing.
Say what you want about Trump and his moronic tendencies. He was easily the best foreign policy president of the last fifty years and its not particularly close.
Say what you want about Trump and his moronic tendencies. He was easily the best foreign policy president of the last fifty years and its not particularly close.
Tapate50
Well-known member
Great post.
I posted earlier but his post is what happens when the indefensible happens. Deflection.
It shows people aren't serious and can't independently think from their party line.
What does thethe say? unserious?
Jaw
It's OVER 5,000!
Reagan had some screwups, but there's no telling how much longer the Cold War would have lasted without him. Ending it makes him hard to be beat for best foreign policy, but Trump had more successes than everyone since, combined.
They've been unserious people for a long time.
And what was Regans famous quote:
"We know only too well that war comes not when the forces of freedom are strong, but when they are weak. It is then that tyrants are tempted."
That is what we had with Regan and what we had with Trump. What we saw with Obama and what we are seeing with Biden just proves that quote is more valid than ever.
57Brave
Well-known member
The same short sighted logic that got us here in the first place.
What would/does blame a few days later accomplish ?
once this plays out history will judge
It accomplishes ensuring that we don't have children running our country anymore.
The adults are coming back starting in 2022.
LETS NOT FOCUS ON HOW WE LEFT!!!!!!
striker42
Well-known member
Yikes. You're chasing bad logic with worse. Were the Democrats wrong to impeach Trump after the riot at the capitol or should they have just sat back and let history be the judge? I don't think you had any issue when I was condemning Trumps response to the capitol riot the night it happened.
Biden screwed up. It's absolutely clear. He should be held accountable. He also has an opportunity to try to salvage what he can and that should be considered as well.