I think his age added years to his deal and not necessarily much AAV. This is the same market that saw Sandoval get 19 million a year last year and Heyward is a better hitter than him. My point is that just based on his offensive alone Heyward is a 4 WAR player and those types of hitters are getting around 20 million a year in most cases.
Heyward to Cubs for less than $200M
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I think his age added years to his deal and not necessarily much AAV. This is the same market that saw Sandoval get 19 million a year last year and Heyward is a better hitter than him. My point is that just based on his offensive alone Heyward is a 4 WAR player and those types of hitters are getting around 20 million a year in most cases.
I feel like people are still operating under the idea that $10 million/year is a lot and $20 million/year is basically superstar-level. It's not.
$10 million in FA now gets you a contributing piece. $20 million gets you a good player. $30-35 million gets you a superstar. It's basically that simple.
$10 million in FA now gets you a contributing piece. $20 million gets you a good player. $30-35 million gets you a superstar. It's basically that simple.
Pretty much. Doesn't help that the Braves payroll has essentially been stagnate for 15 years.
Heyward
<B>Voted Worst Poster <br>'13, '14, '15 (Co-Winner
Agreed, but the Braves dont have the payroll to have 2-3 20+ mil players.
Teams like the Yankees (Tex, CC, ARod, etc) Bos (Porcello, Hanley, Panda) have the payroll where a couple deals dont hurt them.
I know the money inflation in baseball right now.
VirginiaBrave
Well-known member
Bottomline, Heyward is a B + player that got paid A + money. Good for him but great for the Braves that they are not saddled by a contract they may well wish they could get out from under sooner than the end. See Uggla and Melvin...
That's more of an issue with the Braves having a ****ty payroll.
Funny story. Melvin was worth 1.6 WAR in only 87 games in 2015 and was paid 15 million. The Braves just got done paying Markakis 11 million to be worth 1.6 WAR in 156 games. Which was the better deal in 2015? It's likely that Heyward opts out in 3-4 years but say he doesn't. How bad would he have to be in 2020 to not be worth 23 million a year with the way prices are inflating? At that point above average players will likely be making 20+.
VirginiaBrave
Well-known member
Bingo...that's the main issue here. If I were the billionaire owner of the Braves with the stated goal of winning, JH would still be in my OF, Simba at short, a guy like Miller in rotation and CK in the pen. I'm not and they're not so we just gotta deal.
For those with bunched panties, please read all the posts for context (I'll even help you - #86, #88, #104). You won't find a mention in any of them that I feel he's overpaid - not once. You'll also notice that I mention I'm still a fan if you'd bother to read. That's simply spinning the point away from what it is.
Jason Heyward's skill set doesn't perfectly fit what the Braves NEED. That doesn't mean he's a bad player. It doesn't mean he's overpaid. It doesn't mean Theo and Jed are the village idiots. It doesn't mean Jason *ucks goats. It means he's not right-handed, doesn't hit 25+ HRs a year, and doesn't fit behind Freddie Freeman in a batting order.
This was exactly the point I made in post #86. There are quite a few people around here who act like you've walked onto their front porch and kicked their dog right in front of them if you don't bow down and worship in front of the J-Hey Altar. You guys lead the discussion elsewhere.
Jason Heyward's skill set doesn't perfectly fit what the Braves NEED. That doesn't mean he's a bad player. It doesn't mean he's overpaid. It doesn't mean Theo and Jed are the village idiots. It doesn't mean Jason *ucks goats. It means he's not right-handed, doesn't hit 25+ HRs a year, and doesn't fit behind Freddie Freeman in a batting order.
This was exactly the point I made in post #86. There are quite a few people around here who act like you've walked onto their front porch and kicked their dog right in front of them if you don't bow down and worship in front of the J-Hey Altar. You guys lead the discussion elsewhere.
Heyward
<B>Voted Worst Poster <br>'13, '14, '15 (Co-Winner
Thats my point if we had a 150+ mil payroll i'd have no problem giving Heyward the deal he got.
This is my point exactly. $23 million/year is not A+ money anymore. It just isn't.
Guess they ought to quit giving them trophies and parades in that case.
There are two separate discussions. One is whether or not it made sense for the Braves to go after Heyward given what he got paid. The other is whether or not Heyward is overpaid at $23 million/year.
I do not think Heyward is overpaid at $23 million/year. But it's not as clear-cut to me as to whether or not it would have made sense for the Braves. Personally, I would have gone after him. It would have made money tight this year, but we have enough room after this year to make it work, especially if our payroll jumps to something more like $130-140 million within a few years.
I do not think Heyward is overpaid at $23 million/year. But it's not as clear-cut to me as to whether or not it would have made sense for the Braves. Personally, I would have gone after him. It would have made money tight this year, but we have enough room after this year to make it work, especially if our payroll jumps to something more like $130-140 million within a few years.
I feel like you're intentionally missing the point.
Right. But that's a big issue for the Braves if this is indeed the case. We are now essentially the A's and Ray's of the world. When a player gets too expensive we trade him. That leads to windows of 2-3 years and then hopefully competing in another 2-3 years with a 2-3 year window. If the Braves want that continued success they are going to need to increase their payroll.
I think payroll will increase by more than a little once revenues from the new stadium start coming in. But we are going to have to rely a lot on our young talent going forward...which is why it's so important that we loaded up the farm system. Given the state of our payroll, we would have been screwed for years had we not starting selling off our pieces. Because our farm system was garbage.
chop2chip
Well-known member
I feel like the Dansby trade provides closure to the Heyward trade for everyone. I think most of us acknowledge that it wasn't realistic for Heyward to sign with the Braves this offseason since it seems quite apparent he wanted to go to a contender.
I think those who are arguing on behalf of Heyward are supporting his value as a player and not bashing the front office for doing something that wasn't realistic.
Now, the real debate is whether you would prefer to have Heyward at his current contract or the return we ultimately got from trading him. That's a fascinating debate and I don't think either side would be without a valid argument.
I think those who are arguing on behalf of Heyward are supporting his value as a player and not bashing the front office for doing something that wasn't realistic.
Now, the real debate is whether you would prefer to have Heyward at his current contract or the return we ultimately got from trading him. That's a fascinating debate and I don't think either side would be without a valid argument.
So with your own post bolded. Is that what the Braves need? I would think the Braves need good hitters and players that can actually play defense. Something the Braves will be lacking in 2016 an something Heyward is good at on both ends. Again, what good is that right handed power hitter that hits 25+ homers if he's Dan Uggla. Did you want him hitting in the 4th spot in 2013? This is why it important to look at the whole picture and not come up with preconceived ideas of what the team needs. Would a power hitter be nice? Sure. But as I mentioned with Uggla it's important to know what else comes with that. Homers by itself tells me nothing.
chop2chip
Well-known member
I'm cautiously optimistic about the Braves revenues moving forward. Mcguirk said he envisions the Braves with a top 10 payroll, and John Hart keeps emphasizing how much money they will be able to spend when the park opens.
And it makes sense since I believe, correct me if I'm wrong, the Braves will be making money off the entire complex surrounding the park. I also wouldn't be surprised if the team is sold sometime in the next few years since the stadium makes the situation far more appealing.
VirginiaBrave
Well-known member
Don't think that's a worry. I have a hunch the Braves will be under new ownership sooner than later. That might fix a ton.