AerchAngel
<B>Secretary of Statistics</B>
Now hearing that is cool.
Introductions Are In Order II
- Thread starter The Tariff King
- Start date
Now hearing that is cool.
weso1
<B>Clique Leader</B>
You might take a little more time reading some of the introductions - many of us "old codgers" were around throughout the dark ages.
Aaron's #715 came 4 days before my 5th birthday - I was dying (and living every once in a blue moon) with such Braves' greats as Jerry Royster, Biff Pocoroba, Rick Camp, Gene Garber, Mickey Mahler, Bruce Benedict, Barry Bonnell, Rowland Office, Larry McWilliams, Al Hrabosky, Jeff Burroughs, a past his prime Chris Chambliss - and those were the majority of the "best of the rest" during the Niekro/Murphy/Horner era.
Prior to Murphy's back-to-back MVP seasons in 1982 and 1983, the Braves were WORSE than the Cubs/Astros/Pirates of your lifetime...
1975 - 67-94 (5th Place in the Division)
1976 - 70-92 (Last Place in the Division)
1977 - 61-101 (Last Place in the Division)
1978 - 69-93 (Last Place in the Division)
1979 - 66-94 (Last Place in the Division)
1980 - 81-80 (4th Place in the Division)
1981 - 50-56 (5th Place in the Division)
That's 414-610 (.408 Winning %)
Then you had the miracle season in 1982 (13-0 start) and a couple solid years in 1983 and 1984 at Murph's absolute peak...
1982 - 89-73 (Won Division)
1983 - 88-74 (2nd Place in the Division)
1984 - 80-82 (2nd Place in the Division)
Followed by more futility...
1985 - 66-96 (5th Place in the Division)
1986 - 72-89 (Last Place in the Division)
1987 - 69-92 (5th Place in the Division)
1988 - 54-106 (Last Place in the Division)
1989 - 63-97 (Last Place in the Division)
1990 - 65-97 (Last Place in the Division)
389-577 (.402 Winning %)
The franchise finished last or next-to-last in the Division 12 times in the 16 years between the time I started elementary school and the year my younger brother graduated high school. Take away those three "good" years, and the club went 803-1187 (.404 Winning %).
nsacpi
Expects Yuge Games
I wonder what it would be like around here if we went through a stretch like 1975-1981 or 1985-1990. Somehow I think there would be less whining because the whiners would be long gone. But we would have much better gallows humor, a type of humor I find to be vastly underrated.
Cajun wasn't addressing that comment to the old codgers. It's not as big of problem here as it was at Scout (definitely on Daily DOB), but there's a generation of fans who only knew winning seasons, regular playoff appearances and NEVER experienced doormat Braves teams, as with the late 70's or late 80's. They were spoiled with the WS appearances. So, then there would be endless rant threads and posts about whomever was that latest lightning rod. Modesi/Jordan, Kolb, Reitsma right up until now with Uggla and BJ. Add in the fantasy league element, and some of them act as if they're the ones paying the salaries, know what trades should be made and how to properly evaluate projected development of a prospect. Maybe the FO office should've been scouring the Scout boards for new management talent!
2006 was a huge wakeup call for me. I was one of those teens that never saw what losing was like, but I didn't cry about it, I just tried to remain optimistic that it was early in the season blah blah.
2006, the season Ken Ray struck out Barry Bonds, the year McCay McBride was forced to become one of our "top" relievers. The year I thought we were going to come hot after the all star break and win the wild card. That Mets series at home really really killed us. Chipper hurt his oblique swinging, we were forced to trade Betemit for Aybar and Baez. Rest of the season sucked. Renteria was actually good for us that year.
2007 was a disappointment because we actually were pretty hot out the gate, especially with Kelly Johnson taking over at 2nd. Didn't make the playoffs that year either. 2008 should be wiped from the books completely if not for Chipper. Terrible year for Braves fans everywhere.
2006, the season Ken Ray struck out Barry Bonds, the year McCay McBride was forced to become one of our "top" relievers. The year I thought we were going to come hot after the all star break and win the wild card. That Mets series at home really really killed us. Chipper hurt his oblique swinging, we were forced to trade Betemit for Aybar and Baez. Rest of the season sucked. Renteria was actually good for us that year.
2007 was a disappointment because we actually were pretty hot out the gate, especially with Kelly Johnson taking over at 2nd. Didn't make the playoffs that year either. 2008 should be wiped from the books completely if not for Chipper. Terrible year for Braves fans everywhere.
gtcway
Spring Training Invitee
Missed this! Great idea! Also willing to accept donations towards a new 70" flat screen to watch the other games
Gary82
Called Up to the Major Leagues
I certainly wouldn't be around. You can call me a fair weather fan or not, but I'd find something more productive to do.
To my credit, I stuck through 06-08. Ugh.
CyYoung31
Shift Leader
'07 was not that bad. Pretty much just the month of August.
GovClintonTyree
<B>Vencer a Los Doyers</B>
August '07 was 13-15. August '08 was nuclear winter. 9-20.
CyYoung31
Shift Leader
Yeah, but other than that we were pretty much solid every month of that year except maybe June IIRC.. We got real hot in September and missed the playoffs by I think 2 games.
tomahawkchop10
Gwinnett Bound
My names Matt and I'm from the Los Angeles area. I'm 25 and have been a Braves fan all my life. I posted at Scout under the same username. It's nice to finally find another active forum!!
zitothebrave
Connoisseur of Minors
/
07 we were pretty mediocre all year. Hot April, .500 in May and July. 13-15 in June and August and 15-12 in Sept. And that year the last time the Braves were 2 games back was July 8th After Kyle Davies bested Greg Maddux.
07 we were pretty mediocre all year. Hot April, .500 in May and July. 13-15 in June and August and 15-12 in Sept. And that year the last time the Braves were 2 games back was July 8th After Kyle Davies bested Greg Maddux.
JohnAdcox
Brian Jordan's New BFF
Sort of the same reason the postman doesn't go for a walk on his day off. I am always surrounded by that, but need a baseball fix more often. Frankly, the forums here and on the Bravesjournal.us site are the only (online) sources that seem worth the time consistently. But I will, I promise.
CyYoung31
Shift Leader
You pretty much just proved that I was correct. And you are wrong about the two games back thing, because I know for a fact we were 2 games back in the last week of the season after winning the first game of a 3 game series with the Phillies.
Just started thinking back to this era. Ted Turner expressed regret (probably more than once) about firing Bobby Cox. When Ted was the "Mouth of the South," he kind of fashioned himself in the Steinbrenner mold: very hands-on and quick to pull the trigger on dismissing a manager over perceived failure.
To the best of my knowledge, Ted didn't have as much to say about letting Joe Torre walk. Consider the fact that Torre's managing previous managing record was with some pathetic Mets teams, and this performance was pretty damn good, especially in comparison with what was to come after he vacated the premises.
Granted, he benefited greatly from Dale Murphy's MVP-level, but the best team possible was not fielded, which would indicate that John Mullen wasn't the finest GM. Obviously, Niekro was still around but McMurtry didn't become a stallwart. Can't remember what happened to Tommy Boggs (faded or traded). Even the youngsters know about the significant damage caused by the Len Barker. The effects weren't felt immediately, but in the second half of the 80's they effects were immense.
A group in the FO had originally favored hiring Eddie Haas over Joe Torre, and finally got their man for '85. The main reason that Torre got the job was because it was felt that he could relate better to the media. As can be seen, this change probably wasn't a huge factor in the disaster, which was to follow, but it didn't help matters.
Getting back to the Len Barker trade, CF ended up being a gaping hole for years. Brett Butler could've provided everything required of the position with defense and speed. Brook Jacoby, although not All Star level, was effective and would've been the ideal replacement during Bob Horner's extended DL stints for broken wrists. Meanwhile, the legend of Brad Komminsk hung over the organization. This player was supposed to be the perfect complement to Murph. He turned out to be a bust of legendary proportions. Compounding the fact is that it was revealed in Bill's book that the Indians actually offered Butler back to the Braves for Komminsk and were rebuffed.
During the second half of the 80's, this time saw the return of Bobby Cox to Atlanta, after a successful run as manager in Toronto. Chuck Tanner and Russ Nixon came and went as managers to a team than nobody could've made anything of a competitive club. Somebody has to take the fall, right? Over the years at Scout, a couple of other members disputed some of my criticisms of Bobby's work as GM. Let's re-evaluate.
Basically, the organization made a decision from Stan Kasten, all the way down, that they were going to suck. Remember, this was during the high holy days of collusion. Horner was told specifically, "we finished in last with you, we can finish in last without you." He left for Japan, during a time when major leaguers at their peaks did NOT make that kind of jump. He received no major league offers. Former Expo stars, Andre Dawson & Tim Raines offered a package deal. They, too, were rebuffed and Braves ownership, under Ted, had never previously (or subsequently) unwilling to spend. Dawson instructed the Cubs to offer whatever salary, and he accepted, then promptly won an MVP with a last place club. Now, we can ask ourselves about what might've otherwise happened to Dale Murphy's career with the kind of protection in the lineup with Dawson & Raines. Things might've turned out differently.
Going back, prior to Cox's return, the signing of Bruce Sutter was extremely harmful. To be fair, he was the game's premier closer, but this was not a glaring need. Firstly, a team intent on finishing poorly does not require a top closer. Secondly, they already had somebody who was about to become one in Steve Bedrosian. This contributed to the bone-headed decision to convert Bedrosian into a starter. Eventually, he was the centerpiece in a trade to the Phillies for malcontent catcher Ozzie Smith and pitching prospect Pete Smith. Smith would later be featured as part of the "Young Guns" marketing campaign, but never realized the potential projected of him.
Now, getting back to the late 80's, Cox was persistent at keeping and stockpiling the young pitching. Glavine was drafted before Cox's return. The Braves liked Mike Greenwell, and offered him for Glavine. Wisely, this did not happen. Avery was a target for other teams, but fortunately that did not occur either. Cox's crowning achievement was the Doyle Alexander for John Smoltz deadline deal. At the time, it did help Detroit in a very big way, so it can't really be seen as as lopsided. Plus, Smoltz may have have turned out the same through developing in the Tigers system. When looking back, the names that were accumulated were Glavine, Smoltz, Avery, Mercker, Pete Smith, Zane Smith, Lilliquist, Greene and Mercker. It definitely was plan for both quality and quantity. Since Cox is still in an advisory/consulting capacity now, that's likely the main effect from his role, as can be seen with young pitching.
Lastly, the whole Dale Murphy scenario was flubbed. The Padres had Benito Santiago coming up, so they offered both Alomar brothers + John Kruk. The Mets offered Lenny Dykstra, Howard Johnson and Rick Aguilera. Despite the fact that Roberto Alomar would continue on a HOF career, the Mets offer was the better deal. CF & 3B was definitely needs at the time, later addressed by Schuerholz with Terry Pendleton & Otis Nixon. Rick Aguilera would go on to an outstanding closer with the Twins. The sticking point was that Cox wanted David West instead of Aguilera. You will think, "who?" and you would be wise to ask that question.
To the best of my knowledge, Ted didn't have as much to say about letting Joe Torre walk. Consider the fact that Torre's managing previous managing record was with some pathetic Mets teams, and this performance was pretty damn good, especially in comparison with what was to come after he vacated the premises.
Granted, he benefited greatly from Dale Murphy's MVP-level, but the best team possible was not fielded, which would indicate that John Mullen wasn't the finest GM. Obviously, Niekro was still around but McMurtry didn't become a stallwart. Can't remember what happened to Tommy Boggs (faded or traded). Even the youngsters know about the significant damage caused by the Len Barker. The effects weren't felt immediately, but in the second half of the 80's they effects were immense.
A group in the FO had originally favored hiring Eddie Haas over Joe Torre, and finally got their man for '85. The main reason that Torre got the job was because it was felt that he could relate better to the media. As can be seen, this change probably wasn't a huge factor in the disaster, which was to follow, but it didn't help matters.
Getting back to the Len Barker trade, CF ended up being a gaping hole for years. Brett Butler could've provided everything required of the position with defense and speed. Brook Jacoby, although not All Star level, was effective and would've been the ideal replacement during Bob Horner's extended DL stints for broken wrists. Meanwhile, the legend of Brad Komminsk hung over the organization. This player was supposed to be the perfect complement to Murph. He turned out to be a bust of legendary proportions. Compounding the fact is that it was revealed in Bill's book that the Indians actually offered Butler back to the Braves for Komminsk and were rebuffed.
During the second half of the 80's, this time saw the return of Bobby Cox to Atlanta, after a successful run as manager in Toronto. Chuck Tanner and Russ Nixon came and went as managers to a team than nobody could've made anything of a competitive club. Somebody has to take the fall, right? Over the years at Scout, a couple of other members disputed some of my criticisms of Bobby's work as GM. Let's re-evaluate.
Basically, the organization made a decision from Stan Kasten, all the way down, that they were going to suck. Remember, this was during the high holy days of collusion. Horner was told specifically, "we finished in last with you, we can finish in last without you." He left for Japan, during a time when major leaguers at their peaks did NOT make that kind of jump. He received no major league offers. Former Expo stars, Andre Dawson & Tim Raines offered a package deal. They, too, were rebuffed and Braves ownership, under Ted, had never previously (or subsequently) unwilling to spend. Dawson instructed the Cubs to offer whatever salary, and he accepted, then promptly won an MVP with a last place club. Now, we can ask ourselves about what might've otherwise happened to Dale Murphy's career with the kind of protection in the lineup with Dawson & Raines. Things might've turned out differently.
Going back, prior to Cox's return, the signing of Bruce Sutter was extremely harmful. To be fair, he was the game's premier closer, but this was not a glaring need. Firstly, a team intent on finishing poorly does not require a top closer. Secondly, they already had somebody who was about to become one in Steve Bedrosian. This contributed to the bone-headed decision to convert Bedrosian into a starter. Eventually, he was the centerpiece in a trade to the Phillies for malcontent catcher Ozzie Smith and pitching prospect Pete Smith. Smith would later be featured as part of the "Young Guns" marketing campaign, but never realized the potential projected of him.
Now, getting back to the late 80's, Cox was persistent at keeping and stockpiling the young pitching. Glavine was drafted before Cox's return. The Braves liked Mike Greenwell, and offered him for Glavine. Wisely, this did not happen. Avery was a target for other teams, but fortunately that did not occur either. Cox's crowning achievement was the Doyle Alexander for John Smoltz deadline deal. At the time, it did help Detroit in a very big way, so it can't really be seen as as lopsided. Plus, Smoltz may have have turned out the same through developing in the Tigers system. When looking back, the names that were accumulated were Glavine, Smoltz, Avery, Mercker, Pete Smith, Zane Smith, Lilliquist, Greene and Mercker. It definitely was plan for both quality and quantity. Since Cox is still in an advisory/consulting capacity now, that's likely the main effect from his role, as can be seen with young pitching.
Lastly, the whole Dale Murphy scenario was flubbed. The Padres had Benito Santiago coming up, so they offered both Alomar brothers + John Kruk. The Mets offered Lenny Dykstra, Howard Johnson and Rick Aguilera. Despite the fact that Roberto Alomar would continue on a HOF career, the Mets offer was the better deal. CF & 3B was definitely needs at the time, later addressed by Schuerholz with Terry Pendleton & Otis Nixon. Rick Aguilera would go on to an outstanding closer with the Twins. The sticking point was that Cox wanted David West instead of Aguilera. You will think, "who?" and you would be wise to ask that question.
NinersSBChamps
<B>Voted Worst Poster <br> 2015 (Co-Winner)</BR>20
29/M/Colorado
Press 6969 to trade pics.
Press 6969 to trade pics.