It's Anthopoulos
- Thread starter GovClintonTyree
- Start date
Horsehide Harry
<B>Mr. Free Trade</B>
She just wouldn't shut up...
Keith Lockhart this, Keith Lockhart that...over and over and over
It was enough to drive a drinking man to drink more.
BedellBrave
It's OVER 5,000!
Or the old guard were kept at a distance. Here's hoping.
nsacpi
Expects Yuge Games
I think the Gohara trade is one that Coppolella deserves a lot of credit for. Acuna, Albies and Inciarte were gifts of the previous regime and Dave Stewart respectively. Then there is the Wood-Oliveira trade.
As for the drafts, 2015 looked very strong to me from the outset and has panned out well. I'm less impressed by the next two drafts but we need a year or two for a better evaluation.
The farm system is flush. But when you consider drafting high for the past three years (with multiple extra picks in the early rounds), blowing past slot on international signings, and trading away Heyward (1 year of contractual control), Justin Upton (1 year), Kimbrel (4), Simmons (5), Gattis (4), Wood (4.5), and the fact that the best talent was inherited (Albies, Acuna), then I think the overall picture becomes less impressive.
BeanieAntics
Arbitration Eligible
This. And its still possible to hold this position and still think the Braves have a great farm system.
nsacpi
Expects Yuge Games
It'll be 2-3 years before we can have a full evaluation of the Coppy rebuild. But I'd give it an interim grade of C+/B-.
We are set up for a competitive window of at least 5 years starting in 2020, give or take a year.
nsacpi
Expects Yuge Games
I'm not blaming him. But for example in the 2015 draft we had an extra first round pick from Erwin Santana hitting free agency. I think you need to take that into account to evaluate how he did relative to the resources available (and that includes draft position). Just like we need to take into account the list of fairly valuable major league talent (some with significant remaining years of contractual control on very club friendly terms) that was traded away.
That one year of control on Heyward netted the very useful and effective Miller, who we all know brought more bounty. Inciarte, alone, was worth the price of admission. Sorry to repeat myself, but anything that Swanson ultimately accomplishes is gravy.
nsacpi
Expects Yuge Games
The trade with Arizona has turned out very well. For a while, it looked like it would be an enormous haul for us and I think we all got a bit greedy. But it has turned out very well.
Agreed. I always stated Coppy and the rest of the FO was slightly below average. Folks point to the farm system as if any professional sports GM couldn't have done exactly the same thing. Any organization who sells off a handful of valuable assets, picks up a few top draft picks, and inherits Acuna/Albies should have an excellent farm system...there is literally no skill involved in making that happen.
My ding on Coppy has less to do with individual moves or prospects acquired (all GMs miss on prospects and have trades that look bad in hindsight), and more to do with the overall processes followed by the organization.
Shooting for 2017 contention was a bad process that resulted in bad moves like keeping Teheran, and acquiring HO/Kemp.
Valuing pitching prospects over position prospects resulted in the farm having less overall value than it potentially could have.
Promoting Swanson and Albies unnecessarily cost the Braves a lot of future value in exchange for almost zero present value.
Those are all bad processes employed by a below average FO/GM, and is why I always graded Coppy as a C- or worse. I am hopeful AA will be better.
I know what you're saying, but you can play that game with any rebuild and any GM.
Including draft position means you have to question the Cubs rebuild since they had 5 years of top 10 picks and lucked up with the #2 overall in the year Bryant was there. You have to now quesiton Amora Jr at #6 and maybe even Schwarber at #4 depending on if he can turn it around.
They also blew past slot in 2013 to get Eloy and Gleyber. They inherited Baez. They traded away 6 years of DJ Lamehieu, 4 years of Cashner, 2 years of Shark, and I'm sure many more. Of course that's how they got Rizzo and Russell, but if you only focus on what was traded and not received it looks bad. The Arietta trade was a steal. So we'll blame the Orioles GM for that one.
I'm sure we could do the same with the Yankees, White Sox, and Astros.
nsacpi
Expects Yuge Games
The Cubs have made some mistakes. They've done some things well. And have big financial resources. But they have not been perfect.
Main things the Cubs did right was not trying to rebuild in 3 years, and emphasized position player prospects.
nsacpi
Expects Yuge Games
I think the clearest place where the Braves over-emphasis on pitching in the draft hurt was in 2016 when they went Anderson, Wentz, Muller with their first three picks. It is easy to second guess, but Bo Bichette and Nolan Jones were taken after Wentz and Muller in the second round that year.
Plenty of people were against taking 3 pitchers in 2016 the moment after it happened.
I was against it before it happened.
nsacpi
Expects Yuge Games
The Braves have historically gotten poor yields with high school pitchers taken after the first round. But they doubled down that year with Wentz and Muller. I thought it was questionable at the time too. In that part of the draft the best yields have come when we have taken HS hitters and college pitchers.
chop2chip
Well-known member
This is low key the best part of the regime change. No more reason to bring up Heyward, Swanson brought up too early, Kemp, Markakis... a fresh start.