Jecki Lon Memorial Star Wars Thread

striker42 said:
https://www.ign.com/articles/star-wars-the-acolyte-season-1-review-disney-plus

This captures my feelings. There are some genuinely interesting ideas in the Acolyte, some actors that put on excellent performances, and moments that could have been really good. The problem is the storytelling was terrible.

The thing I agree with most in this review is they didn't tell a complete story. They put things out that might come up in future seasons but there's no guarantee of another season.

With a show like this, you have to tell a full, coherent story in season 1. It's fine setting up for future seasons but not at the cost of the current season. Look at Stranger Things. Season one was a complete story. Sure they left things open for a second season but if it had been a one season show, they had a coherent story.

The Acolyte is not a coherent story at this point. This might be why I feel like they could have made this season in 3 episodes. They put too much unnecessary in the show to tell a complete story.
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No no no that persons just a big dummy

Lol
 
striker42 said:
https://www.ign.com/articles/star-wars-the-acolyte-season-1-review-disney-plus

This captures my feelings. There are some genuinely interesting ideas in the Acolyte, some actors that put on excellent performances, and moments that could have been really good. The problem is the storytelling was terrible.

The thing I agree with most in this review is they didn't tell a complete story. They put things out that might come up in future seasons but there's no guarantee of another season.

With a show like this, you have to tell a full, coherent story in season 1. It's fine setting up for future seasons but not at the cost of the current season. Look at Stranger Things. Season one was a complete story. Sure they left things open for a second season but if it had been a one season show, they had a coherent story.

The Acolyte is not a coherent story at this point. This might be why I feel like they could have made this season in 3 episodes. They put too much unnecessary in the show to tell a complete story.
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I read that review and it's a lot of filler with a little pop and not much quality. Many of their complaints were addressed, Senator came in later, but was right there in the beginning with inquiries in the order.
 
Carp said:
How ironic, cause that's how most people feel about the show.
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Sure as you could many shows.

I'm kind of tired of the debating I'll be mad real. I just rewatched a bit of Book of Boba Fett and forgot how bad it was. What a huge waste of cash that was. Maybe it would have played OK as a film Allowing Boba to eventually return in Mando as an ally. But I never thought I'd watch a less gangster gangster show. Where was the anger at that pile of poo doo?
 
zitothebrave said:
I read that review and it's a lot of filler with a little pop and not much quality. Many of their complaints were addressed, Senator came in later, but was right there in the beginning with inquiries in the order.
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You're carrying a lot of water for the show. You have to admit it had some pretty big issues.

I didn't hate the show. I actually thought it had some good ideas and Manny Jancinto's Stranger was probably the best character the Disney+ shows have brought us outside of Mando (honorable mention to Amy Sedaris' character).

But there were problems, especially with the storytelling. The show felt like a camel, a horse designed by a committee. It at times wanted to be a character drama centered on Sol and Osha. But it also tried to be a political thriller with Vernestra's machinations. But it was also trying to be a thought experiment on morality and intention. Then again sometimes it tried to be a mystery of what really happened at the fortress.

This resulted in a show that felt jerky and inconsistent to watch. It makes me think of the advice of Ron Swanson: don't half ass two things, whole ass one thing. More focused storytelling would have made a world of difference.
 
striker42 said:
You're carrying a lot of water for the show. You have to admit it had some pretty big issues.

I didn't hate the show. I actually thought it had some good ideas and Manny Jancinto's Stranger was probably the best character the Disney+ shows have brought us outside of Mando (honorable mention to Amy Sedaris' character).

But there were problems, especially with the storytelling. The show felt like a camel, a horse designed by a committee. It at times wanted to be a character drama centered on Sol and Osha. But it also tried to be a political thriller with Vernestra's machinations. But it was also trying to be a thought experiment on morality and intention. Then again sometimes it tried to be a mystery of what really happened at the fortress.

This resulted in a show that felt jerky and inconsistent to watch. It makes me think of the advice of Ron Swanson: don't half ass two things, whole ass one thing. More focused storytelling would have made a world of difference.
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I don't feel like I"m carrying a lot of water. I'm just being a devil's advocate. I'm going hard on the trolls because it's easy.

I'm not deluded that this show is anything special. I also don't think it's ****. I feel like anyone with a brain would realize it's a mid show. If you believe the chuds, they'd say it's the worst Star Wars show ever and it isn't. It's streets ahead of Obi Wan and Boba Fett. Sure it's a disappoinment when compared to Mando and Andor and Ahsoka, but it's not as bad as people believe it to be.
 
I have The Acolyte at the bottom of my live action Star Wars shows list. Boba Fett gets an incomplete grade from me as it was shot under Covid protocols. Hard to know what it could have been.

Kenobi had some issues. The Inquisitor girl was an atrocious actress and they wasted way too much time on her. But it gave us an epic scene of Kenobi beating Vader and learning who he really is. That was awesome and The Acolyte lacked anything approaching that level. Ewan McGregor also is a fantastic Obiwan.

The Acolyte had the acting problems of the other shows but it also had insufficient plot. If it weren't for Manny Jancinto the show would have been a disaster.
 
striker42 said:
I have The Acolyte at the bottom of my live action Star Wars shows list. Boba Fett gets an incomplete grade from me as it was shot under Covid protocols. Hard to know what it could have been.

Kenobi had some issues. The Inquisitor girl was an atrocious actress and they wasted way too much time on her. But it gave us an epic scene of Kenobi beating Vader and learning who he really is. That was awesome and The Acolyte lacked anything approaching that level. Ewan McGregor also is a fantastic Obiwan.

The Acolyte had the acting problems of the other shows but it also had insufficient plot. If it weren't for Manny Jancinto the show would have been a disaster.
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BOba Fett was a Mobster movie about a mobster who didn't do mobster ****. Half the show was flash backs to him before the events of Mando which kind of sucked. It's a terrible show.

Kenobi has an assload of issues. People forgive it because of the fights with Vader but I mean come on how many people were ****ing stabbed with lightsabers through their guts and lived in that show? What a crock of ****. It also creates a much bigger plot hole in continuity which would be knowing Kenobi is out there, why was Vader shocked to have sensed him? Why was the last time he was "the student but now am the master" etc. Anyone who complains about continuity and stepping on canon events in Acolyte should loathe Kenobi much more. Because Kenobi meeting Vader again was ****ing horrible. No way would Vader not then dedicate all his resources to finding Kenobi.

ALso what like 30 mintutes of screen time was devoted to little Leia evading bounty hunters. Kenobi is dog ****. It would have been an OK movie with the core plot without the revenge (Kenobi rescuing Leia from an inquisitor who captured her as a means to garner favor with Vader who's screen time isn't shared with Kenobi) it would have been fine, but yeah it's dog****.

I mean you can have it at the bottom, that's fine, in the end we all have opinions, Acolyte is just so much better than Kenobi and Boba Fett. Those are nostagia grabs that just sucked. Only thing that helped Kenobi was Ewan. Everything else ass.
 
zitothebrave said:
BOba Fett was a Mobster movie about a mobster who didn't do mobster ****. Half the show was flash backs to him before the events of Mando which kind of sucked. It's a terrible show.

Kenobi has an assload of issues. People forgive it because of the fights with Vader but I mean come on how many people were ****ing stabbed with lightsabers through their guts and lived in that show? What a crock of ****. It also creates a much bigger plot hole in continuity which would be knowing Kenobi is out there, why was Vader shocked to have sensed him? Why was the last time he was "the student but now am the master" etc. Anyone who complains about continuity and stepping on canon events in Acolyte should loathe Kenobi much more. Because Kenobi meeting Vader again was ****ing horrible. No way would Vader not then dedicate all his resources to finding Kenobi.

ALso what like 30 mintutes of screen time was devoted to little Leia evading bounty hunters. Kenobi is dog ****. It would have been an OK movie with the core plot without the revenge (Kenobi rescuing Leia from an inquisitor who captured her as a means to garner favor with Vader who's screen time isn't shared with Kenobi) it would have been fine, but yeah it's dog****.

I mean you can have it at the bottom, that's fine, in the end we all have opinions, Acolyte is just so much better than Kenobi and Boba Fett. Those are nostagia grabs that just sucked. Only thing that helped Kenobi was Ewan. Everything else ass.
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Boba Fett was Dances with Wolves. It's a take I think could have worked with the right execution. I think it would have been better without the Covid constraints but how much better is a guess. It was never going to be Mando.

The scene where they chased Leia was absurdly bad and not even necessary. Most of the Star Wars shows, including The Acolyte, have had just as cringey moments.

Kenobi didn't create any holes in continuity. Vader knew Kenobi was out there. If cutting off his legs and throwing him into a volcano didn't have Vader throwing everything after Kenobi, getting beat a second time wouldn't.

As for the student and master line, Kenobi showed Vader how much he still didn't know in their fight in Kenobi. He showed Vader that he was still the master. Also, Anakin wasn't Kenobi's official student anymore when they fought on Mustafar. So whether they last met on Mustafar or the fight in Kenobi, the student-master line is figurative.

I've never understood why getting stabbed in the guts by a lightsaber caused instant death. Lightsaber cauterize wounds instantly so you wouldn't bleed out. Gut wounds often take days to kill. With Star Wars advanced technology, you'd survive getting impaled by a lightsaber if you get medical attention. It's deaths like Qui Gon's that aren't believable.
 
striker42 said:
Boba Fett was Dances with Wolves. It's a take I think could have worked with the right execution. I think it would have been better without the Covid constraints but how much better is a guess. It was never going to be Mando.

The scene where they chased Leia was absurdly bad and not even necessary. Most of the Star Wars shows, including The Acolyte, have had just as cringey moments.

Kenobi didn't create any holes in continuity. Vader knew Kenobi was out there. If cutting off his legs and throwing him into a volcano didn't have Vader throwing everything after Kenobi, getting beat a second time wouldn't.

As for the student and master line, Kenobi showed Vader how much he still didn't know in their fight in Kenobi. He showed Vader that he was still the master. Also, Anakin wasn't Kenobi's official student anymore when they fought on Mustafar. So whether they last met on Mustafar or the fight in Kenobi, the student-master line is figurative.

I've never understood why getting stabbed in the guts by a lightsaber caused instant death. Lightsaber cauterize wounds instantly so you wouldn't bleed out. Gut wounds often take days to kill. With Star Wars advanced technology, you'd survive getting impaled by a lightsaber if you get medical attention. It's deaths like Qui Gon's that aren't believable.
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I don't see it as Dances With Wolves. The stupid flash backs did, but the overall plot is a bad mob show. The only good episode of the show was the Mandalorian episode that was inserted into the show.

The Leia chase wasn't about being cringey, it's stupid and a time waste that didn't accomplish anything. It was filler.

I feel like you're working on a handful of mental pretzels to justify the Kenobi fight.

Also getting stabbed through the gut should kill you Even with the cauterization of wounds how your core anatomy functions would be over.. But it's OK. I just feel like they are afraid fo killing people. It's one of the things I like about the Acolyte. There are stakes. People die. Not just wind up getting miraculously healed.
 
zitothebrave said:
I don't see it as Dances With Wolves. The stupid flash backs did, but the overall plot is a bad mob show. The only good episode of the show was the Mandalorian episode that was inserted into the show.

The Leia chase wasn't about being cringey, it's stupid and a time waste that didn't accomplish anything. It was filler.

I feel like you're working on a handful of mental pretzels to justify the Kenobi fight.

Also getting stabbed through the gut should kill you Even with the cauterization of wounds how your core anatomy functions would be over.. But it's OK. I just feel like they are afraid fo killing people. It's one of the things I like about the Acolyte. There are stakes. People die. Not just wind up getting miraculously healed.
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One thing I think is pretty clear is both Kenobi and The Acolyte would have benefited from more focused storytelling. The Inquisitor storyline of Kenobi didn't fit at all and The Acolyte had so much unnecessary going on that there was insufficient time for a complex plot. One reason The Mandalorian is so good is it's focus on Mando and Baby Yoda.

The Kenobi fight didn't cause any problems. In fact, it fixed a continuity error. Kenobi wouldn't have known Vader's identity when they met in New Hope without that fight. Kenobi left Anakin for dead and Vader's identity was kept a secret by the Emperor. That fight filled in why Kenobi knew Anakin was Vader.

A lightsaber in the gut would be fatal if untreated, but it wouldn't be quick. Without bleeding out there's no reason you'd die quickly from that wound. Plenty of time to get some Bacta. This is especially true if the wounded was a Force user who could use the Force to keep themselves alive.

I agree that The Acolyte being more brutal was a good thing. Most of the kills were from wounds that were obvious quick deaths too. Jecki, for instance, had her center of mass basically shredded.
 
striker42 said:
One thing I think is pretty clear is both Kenobi and The Acolyte would have benefited from more focused storytelling. The Inquisitor storyline of Kenobi didn't fit at all and The Acolyte had so much unnecessary going on that there was insufficient time for a complex plot. One reason The Mandalorian is so good is it's focus on Mando and Baby Yoda.

The Kenobi fight didn't cause any problems. In fact, it fixed a continuity error. Kenobi wouldn't have known Vader's identity when they met in New Hope without that fight. Kenobi left Anakin for dead and Vader's identity was kept a secret by the Emperor. That fight filled in why Kenobi knew Anakin was Vader.

A lightsaber in the gut would be fatal if untreated, but it wouldn't be quick. Without bleeding out there's no reason you'd die quickly from that wound. Plenty of time to get some Bacta. This is especially true if the wounded was a Force user who could use the Force to keep themselves alive.

I agree that The Acolyte being more brutal was a good thing. Most of the kills were from wounds that were obvious quick deaths too. Jecki, for instance, had her center of mass basically shredded.
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I don't know about you but nothing about the fight indicated Kenobi really knew Vader. Where he calls him only a master of evil "Darth" Again I don't really care, I just found the thing silly.

To me I think the worst crimes Disney has committed is leaning into fan service (Boba Fett and Kenobi are that) to me we have a universe with unlimited exploration. Why aren't we exploring it? I get in the Skywalker Saga films, but it's part of why I liked season 1 of Mandalorian so much, lots of familiar things, without leaning into fanservice. I want to see Rodians, Assassin Droids, etc. but it doesn't need to be Greedo or IG-88. Love seeing Jedi who aren't Yoda, Luke, etc.

And you know what fan service shows happening at the same time are great too. Everyone should get to see Hayden do anakin again, that's fine, but don't make it the tent pole. That's why Star Wars has felt stale. And honestly even something with something Familiar (Andor with Cassian and Mon Mothma) they didn't lean into the fancy of them being something untouchable and perfect, they had depth and the show was about filling out that depth.
 
I finished watching Tales of the Empire. Honestly, I think that and Tales of the Jedi are the best Star Wars content since the original series. They're so, so good.

Those two shows are tight, compelling storytelling. Anyone wanting to make Star Wars content should have to watch those shows several dozen times.
 
striker42 said:
I finished watching Tales of the Empire. Honestly, I think that and Tales of the Jedi are the best Star Wars content since the original series. They're so, so good.

Those two shows are tight, compelling storytelling. Anyone wanting to make Star Wars content should have to watch those shows several dozen times.
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I was mid on tales of the Empire. It's not bad by any stretch. But it failed to live up to Tales of the Jedi IMO. I feel like teh Elsbeth arc was meh compared to the Offee arc which I thought was better. But the main reason I appreciated her arc was because unlike Elsbeth Offee wasn't really bad for bad's sake. She wound up falling to the dark side. But Elsbeth for someone who seems so smart really acted stupid. Like how do you not discern the Empire and CIS have the same mechanations?
 
zitothebrave said:
I was mid on tales of the Empire. It's not bad by any stretch. But it failed to live up to Tales of the Jedi IMO. I feel like teh Elsbeth arc was meh compared to the Offee arc which I thought was better. But the main reason I appreciated her arc was because unlike Elsbeth Offee wasn't really bad for bad's sake. She wound up falling to the dark side. But Elsbeth for someone who seems so smart really acted stupid. Like how do you not discern the Empire and CIS have the same mechanations?
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The Offee arc was by far better but I enjoyed the Elsbeth arc too. Seeing Elsbeth's back story and how she reached the point she did in the Mandoverse was interesting. Helped show exactly how cutthroat she was.

As for the Empire and the CIS, I don't think it was common knowledge that Palpatine orchestrated the war. Relatively few people would know that. And even if Elsbeth did, she would still want to rise through the ranks in the Empire as it was the only way available to obtain any real power. She'd need a lot of power to get revenge on the Emperor.
 
striker42 said:
The Offee arc was by far better but I enjoyed the Elsbeth arc too. Seeing Elsbeth's back story and how she reached the point she did in the Mandoverse was interesting. Helped show exactly how cutthroat she was.

As for the Empire and the CIS, I don't think it was common knowledge that Palpatine orchestrated the war. Relatively few people would know that. And even if Elsbeth did, she would still want to rise through the ranks in the Empire as it was the only way available to obtain any real power. She'd need a lot of power to get revenge on the Emperor.
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I wasn't going for the knowledge but for the mechanitaions, opressive domination. I'm not saying she's not evil for evil's sake. She is and it fills out her backstory. But I feel like it could have been at most 2 episodes. It's not bad of course I'm not ****ting on it. It's just kind of meh. Especially stood next to Bad Batch which is amazing.
 
Sad news

As first reported by Deadline, Lucasfilm has decided not to keep The Acolyte going. While an official reason for the Disney+ show being cancelled wasn’t provided to the outlet, the article does note that while it got off to a strong start when it premiered at the start of June, viewership dwindled in the weeks to follow. It was also mentioned that while The Acolyte earned decent reviews from critics, it was a divisive entry in the canon among fans, to the point that
 
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