50PoundHead
Hessmania Forever
I don't know if Maddon is the best manager in the game but he's pretty good and he certainly let Upton play and play and play. I don't see much difference in the use patterns, which would support your point.
Lets get a poll on this things to get a feel of where we stand.
- Thread starter jason27nc
- Start date
I don't know if Maddon is the best manager in the game but he's pretty good and he certainly let Upton play and play and play. I don't see much difference in the use patterns, which would support your point.
VirginiaBrave
Well-known member
To your point, the Braves are fast becoming the Dallas Cowboys of MLB. There are a few pieces of talent but nowhere near what there needs to be. The pen outside CK is overrated. CJ and BJ are overrated. Simmons was overpaid. There was no use paying him this early, 2nd is still an issue even with Uggla gone. It is the definition of an overrated team.
Heyward
<B>Voted Worst Poster <br>'13, '14, '15 (Co-Winner
You do bring up some good points, i disagree on the pen, not as good as it was in recent years but still solid.
50PoundHead
Hessmania Forever
Not that bad a comparison except for the notable differences in the ownership styles. I don't know if the bullpen is overrated, but it's thin. I realize Wren flipped a coin between Venters and O'Flaherty and neither was surefire. But at least O'Flaherty made it back this year.l I won't blame Wren for that though. More bad luck than anything else.
VirginiaBrave
Well-known member
Btw, I am a cowboys fan to for 30 + years as well. 1995-96 was a very good year.
Except the Cowboys have been a mediocre team the last few years and a laughing stock of the NFL. Can't make the playoffs and have **** draft picks. Worst place you can be and this has happened like 3-4 years in a row. And this is coming from a life long Cowboys fan. The Braves are competitive and have either made the playoffs or been right there the last 5 years or so. So in reality there is no comparison.
50PoundHead
Hessmania Forever
Packer fan here. Cowboys were the model franchise when Schramm, Brandt, and Landry were running the show.
VirginiaBrave
Well-known member
Its an apt comparison when both GM's overestimate the talent. I have said before the Braves have not been legit WS contenders (ie capable of winning it) since the big three were broken up. I am not just pulling it out of thin air, when was the last NLCS trip? 2001 is a long time between drinks at the table.
weso1
<B>Clique Leader</B>
I think we need a shake up. Not sure if Fredi or Wren really deserve to be fired. Sure Wren f'd up big time signing BJ, but he also got some nice long term contracts for us. Pretty awesome to have those young guys locked up. Fredi seems to be well respected by his mlb brethren despite his weird lineups. They have to respect for some reason, right?
But I think in the end we might need a change more than anything. Not sure that the change will be better but us Braves fans seem to be wanting it. I'm in for a change as well. The Braves are just getting a bit stale. There I said it.
But I think in the end we might need a change more than anything. Not sure that the change will be better but us Braves fans seem to be wanting it. I'm in for a change as well. The Braves are just getting a bit stale. There I said it.
BremanFan88
Playing the Waiting Game
BJ's WAR numbers in Tampa:
4.5
4.8
2.1
3.8
3.9
3.1
Now please explain to me your "he's never been that good" statement and please don't bring up batting average because that's not a proper way to measure a players contributions to a team. BJ Upton was a damn fine CF in Tampa and there's no denying that.
The year before he came here he hit a respectable .246 with 29 HR's and had 31 SB's. That is a huge difference than what MR Fredi has gotten out of him.
ChapelHillMatt
Approaching Buddy Hernandez Territory
246 is respectable?
He was better than he's been here but he's always been inconsistent. He'll get you some counting numbers, play pretty good defense but on the flip side had a bad attitude and was lazy.
He's never lived up to his potential, no matter who his manager was. This is one reason why I think advanced stats are dumb. What we're seeing with BJ wasn't that shocking. I'm mildly surprised his power and speed numbers have dropped off but I'm not surprised by his average and K numbers. I was one of the one that was very critical of the signing and was told he would improve, just be patient. Well, I'm still waiting. Now instead of holding BJ responsible for his lack of production or Wren responsible for signing him in the 1st place, we just blame Fredi.
He was better than he's been here but he's always been inconsistent. He'll get you some counting numbers, play pretty good defense but on the flip side had a bad attitude and was lazy.
He's never lived up to his potential, no matter who his manager was. This is one reason why I think advanced stats are dumb. What we're seeing with BJ wasn't that shocking. I'm mildly surprised his power and speed numbers have dropped off but I'm not surprised by his average and K numbers. I was one of the one that was very critical of the signing and was told he would improve, just be patient. Well, I'm still waiting. Now instead of holding BJ responsible for his lack of production or Wren responsible for signing him in the 1st place, we just blame Fredi.
nsacpi
Expects Yuge Games
He's having a great September.
No, you are the one that brought him up. I have never liked him either and I remember you saying that about him when he was first signed. Bj is not the issue with Fredi IMO. Fredi's lack of managing skills go way beyond Bj. Countless times he plays with no urgency at all when a game is on the line. He does it even in the playoffs and acts like it is April or May. I hate managers that don't play to win every night. Also his lineups are atrocious almost daily. It took him almost half a season to take Bj out of the leadoff roll. We were saying it from day one that Bj sucked and needed to be moved.
Heyward
<B>Voted Worst Poster <br>'13, '14, '15 (Co-Winner
With the exception of Freeman, Heyward, JUp.
The team is flawed and that lies on the FO/Wren, although we're not working with a huge payroll either here.
The rest of the lineup is literally hit or miss, you have no basis to believe this other than you hate Fredi and blame him for everything.
In before you say im a Fredi fanboy when i've said before firing him makes no difference.
I don't hate him. I just don't think he is a good manager. Night after night he proves that. How about making a list of things he does well. It will be a lot shorter than things he does bad. I agree the line up is flawed but he has a job to do and that is to get the best out of what he has. He does not do that.
Heyward
<B>Voted Worst Poster <br>'13, '14, '15 (Co-Winner
With with exception of JUp/FF/Heyward, no one else can hit for ****.
Yet thats Fredi's fault?
Again, i'd probably roll with JH/JU/FF as the top 3 but after that, the entire lineup is hit or miss.
I agree Fredi isnt a great manager but yall act like we'd be 20 games better with someone else as manager.
zitothebrave
Connoisseur of Minors
Gattis has hit more than a little bit. And yes he has a part in that. Knowing that Simmons, Bossman, etc. suck, why bat them at the top? that's his fault.
Ignoring the fact that batting average is irrelevant when determing if a player is good offensively or not he did have a WRC+ of 108 that season which is respectable and dare I say above average for a center fielder. In fact all of his seasons in Tampa can be considered that. He was a good player with the Rays. That obviously hasn't happened here but he was a good player there. And if he was doing that here we would be happy with him.