Official CBA Negotiation Thread

Slippyjms said:
MLB doesn’t want to cancel games. It’s just the holiday season so MLB and the Union are just handling the opening rounds before getting to the big stuff in the new year
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I don't think they will extend the current agreement. The players dislike it too much.

I don't think they want to cancel games, but I do think they want expand the playoffs a ton and not pay the players. I worry they do not care about the season as much as they care about winning the negotiation and keeping the right to not pay for talent if they do not want to.
 
To me, these negotiations seem to be all about bridging the gaps in a few numbers. Hopefully, they settle on expanded playoffs, universal DH, a negotiated luxury tax number, shifting a bit more cash to younger guys, and 1-2 sensible tweaks to dissuade tanking a bit.

They don't seem to be fundamentally at odds over any big issue, so my hope is once the negotiations start for real they will proceed quickly.

Nobody in the sport should be so naïve as to allow the season to be ruined and risk losing even more fans to fake boxing, laser tag, esports, and competitive dancing on tiktok. Baseball is losing relevance just fine on it's own without being sabotaged by it's own stakeholders. They should all be self aware enough to see that.
 
Enscheff said:
To me, these negotiations seem to be all about bridging the gaps in a few numbers. Hopefully, they settle on expanded playoffs, universal DH, a negotiated luxury tax number, shifting a bit more cash to younger guys, and 1-2 sensible tweaks to dissuade tanking a bit.

They don't seem to be fundamentally at odds over any big issue, so my hope is once the negotiations start for real they will proceed quickly.

Nobody in the sport should be so naïve as to allow the season to be ruined and risk losing even more fans to fake boxing, laser tag, esports, and competitive dancing on tiktok. Baseball is losing relevance just fine on it's own without being sabotaged by it's own stakeholders. They should all be self aware enough to see that.
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I hope you are right, except about expanded playoffs. I hate that idea. The regular season is long and important. It's not going to be important if we have that BS that we had in 2020. I think it will ruin the trade deadline if there are only a couple of sellers. I think it will make teams less likely to push for a stacked team b/c they can still get into the playoffs at 500. And I don't want the playoffs won by some team that is not deep but they have two studs on the mound and win. It's going to happen.

They are not even talking right now.

This should be easy. There was an athletic article where Scherzer said there was a bargain that you were cost controlled early and they paid you late. If they are not going to pay you late anymore, then they need to pay you more early. That makes sense to me.
 
Enscheff said:
To me, these negotiations seem to be all about bridging the gaps in a few numbers. Hopefully, they settle on expanded playoffs, universal DH, a negotiated luxury tax number, shifting a bit more cash to younger guys, and 1-2 sensible tweaks to dissuade tanking a bit.

They don't seem to be fundamentally at odds over any big issue, so my hope is once the negotiations start for real they will proceed quickly.

Nobody in the sport should be so naïve as to allow the season to be ruined and risk losing even more fans to fake boxing, laser tag, esports, and competitive dancing on tiktok. Baseball is losing relevance just fine on it's own without being sabotaged by it's own stakeholders. They should all be self aware enough to see that.
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What's unfortunate is that "should" is the operative word there - and if they are it will mark the first time in our lifetimes that they are.
 
Russ2dollas said:
I hope you are right, except about expanded playoffs. I hate that idea. The regular season is long and important. It's not going to be important if we have that BS that we had in 2020. I think it will ruin the trade deadline if there are only a couple of sellers. I think it will make teams less likely to push for a stacked team b/c they can still get into the playoffs at 500. And I don't want the playoffs won by some team that is not deep but they have two studs on the mound and win. It's going to happen.

They are not even talking right now.

This should be easy. There was an athletic article where Scherzer said there was a bargain that you were cost controlled early and they paid you late. If they are not going to pay you late anymore, then they need to pay you more early. That makes sense to me.
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I'm really sorry, but it's beyond amazing to me that he's allowed to be involved in these conversations at all.

As a player who hasn't had the chance to become a free-agent yet, I'd have so little interest in what a guy who just signed his third free-agent deal and was making $40 million a year had to say it would cross his unmatching eyes.
 
clvclv said:
I'm really sorry, but it's beyond amazing to me that he's allowed to be involved in these conversations at all.

As a player who hasn't had the chance to become a free-agent yet, I'd have so little interest in what a guy who just signed his third free-agent deal and was making $40 million a year had to say it would cross his unmatching eyes.
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Not sure why there would be venom. He was arguing to give the non-fA players more money. He's had lots of contracts b/c he's really good and he's done it for a long time.

The people on that level will get paid. In fact, the stars will have their % of team payroll increase. The question is how to you get the middle class paid? Max is on their side if you read the article. He wasn't complaining about his situation.
 
Russ2dollas said:
Not sure why there would be venom. He was arguing to give the non-fA players more money. He's had lots of contracts b/c he's really good and he's done it for a long time.

The people on that level will get paid. In fact, the stars will have their % of team payroll increase. The question is how to you get the middle class paid? Max is on their side if you read the article. He wasn't complaining about his situation.
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Seriously. Shouldn’t it be laudable that he’s arguing for changes that benefit the majority of players, even if—as a top-1% type guy—he’s not part of that set?
 
Enscheff said:
To me, these negotiations seem to be all about bridging the gaps in a few numbers. Hopefully, they settle on expanded playoffs, universal DH, a negotiated luxury tax number, shifting a bit more cash to younger guys, and 1-2 sensible tweaks to dissuade tanking a bit.

They don't seem to be fundamentally at odds over any big issue, so my hope is once the negotiations start for real they will proceed quickly.

Nobody in the sport should be so naïve as to allow the season to be ruined and risk losing even more fans to fake boxing, laser tag, esports, and competitive dancing on tiktok. Baseball is losing relevance just fine on it's own without being sabotaged by it's own stakeholders. They should all be self aware enough to see that.
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From MLBTR: "MLB is expected to put forth an increase in the league minimum salary to $600K, with further hikes to a height of $700K by the end of a potential CBA term, as well as alterations to draft pick compensation/forfeiture for signing free agents tagged with a qualifying offer."

A lame increase of the minimum salary to $600k is a joke of an offer. They will probably need to scale that minimum salary up as players near Arb, something like $600k for 0-1 years service, $700k for 1-2 years of service, and $800k for 2-3 years of service. That achieves the "get money to player at younger ages" request both directly and indirectly (arb salaries should increase as well due to higher pre-arb salaries).

Removing the QO that drags down FA players like Conforto is probably going to be a required change. We've seen too many mid-tier FAs get wrecked by the QO hanging on their necks.

I don't see any "anti-tanking" measures mentioned in this quote, but that doesn't mean it isn't in there.
 
I wish they'd keep most everything the same but raise the min to 750K, 1 million year two and 1.5 year three. More money for young guys who are still likely to be underpaid and it makes the mid level guys more attractive to sign. I think now getting 1 war for 600K makes it tough for some clubs to spend 5 million on even a 2 war vet. I'd want to get young guys paid and make the middle class more valuable so teams aren't so young, vets have a chance to get pensions, and guys have more chances to put it together and improve to better players.

I don't think it's good to have a roster of 5 guys getting paid and 20 rookie scale guys.

Allow teams to get a pick if they lose a FA but don't penalize a team for signing the player. universal DH. No stupid manfred rules. Keep everything else the same. Play ball.

I worry nothing will happen without the expanded playoff BS. I hate it. Teams will stop building all around teams. It will concentrate FA more b/c all people will want a couple of super star arms and the best bats they can for the playoffs. 4-5 starters and bench will be minimum guys.
 
As expected first proposal from MLB was not well received by the union. The silver lining is they got it out on the earlier end of the timeline so that inspires some confidence about their desire to get things done
 
Yeah, no wonder it was poorly received. All the owners did was raise the min salary a trivial amount, and removed the QO from hurting FAs like Conforto.

Min salary needs to come way up. Salary cap needs to come way up. Incentives need to be put in place to make teams want to win 80 games rather than lose 100 games, even if they don't make the playoffs. In exchange, the owners will get more playoff games, which are huge revenue.

Until that happens I don't expect to see much progress.
 
Enscheff said:
Yeah, no wonder it was poorly received. All the owners did was raise the min salary a trivial amount, and removed the QO from hurting FAs like Conforto.

Min salary needs to come way up. Salary cap needs to come way up. Incentives need to be put in place to make teams want to win 80 games rather than lose 100 games, even if they don't make the playoffs. In exchange, the owners will get more playoff games, which are huge revenue.

Until that happens I don't expect to see much progress.
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The proposal wasn't quite that trivial - especially since we haven't seen exactly how much they offered to raise the minimum - I do assume it's fair to think they probably need to go further though.

1.) Raise in minimum salary
2.) Elimination of the QO
3.) Draft lottery
4.) Universal DH
5.) Playoff expansion to only 12 teams instead of 14

According to Feinsand's story the increase in the minimum salary was "substantial", included significant increases for players with 2+ years of service-time, AND provides for further performance-based bonuses for good players. It also included provisions to attempt to eliminate service-time manipulation.

https://www.mlb.com/news/mlb-mlbpa-...fSzxEm9gtuQqXM/dSLmRsED9z&bt_ts=1642171112403

I realize that's not EVERYTHING the players want, but that's the best grouping of concessions they've been offered since they started getting killed in negotiations 2 CBAs ago.
 
In my opinion, the good news about this first offer is it exposes all the dials required to reach an agreement. It doesn’t seem like the owners have completely ruled out any part of the players’ requests other than the 6 years of team control.

Now that the dials are in place, it’s just a matter of turning them enough in the right direction to make everyone happy. I’m cautiously optimistic.
 
cajunrevenge said:
Reverse the draft order for non playoff teams. That will incentivize teams not to tank.
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How does that work? Not to be too much of a conspiracy guy but if you have a Bryce Harper guy sitting out there will teams stand pat at the deadline and try to get the number one pick instead of going for the playoffs?

Very interested in the other externalities decisions like these will bring upon us.
 
Enscheff said:
In my opinion, the good news about this first offer is it exposes all the dials required to reach an agreement. It doesn’t seem like the owners have completely ruled out any part of the players’ requests other than the 6 years of team control.

Now that the dials are in place, it’s just a matter of turning them enough in the right direction to make everyone happy. I’m cautiously optimistic.
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It's at least a starting point. No one expected either side to open with their best offer. Like you said, play with the numbers to split the difference between each side's asking price and let's play ball.
 
clvclv said:
According to Feinsand's story the increase in the minimum salary was "substantial", included significant increases for players with 2+ years of service-time, AND provides for further performance-based bonuses for good players. It also included provisions to attempt to eliminate service-time manipulation.

https://www.mlb.com/news/mlb-mlbpa-...fSzxEm9gtuQqXM/dSLmRsED9z&bt_ts=1642171112403
.
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You might look at the outlet you're linking to and which is describing Major League Baseball's offer as "substantial" and "significant."
 
MadduxFanII said:
You might look at the outlet you're linking to and which is describing Major League Baseball's offer as "substantial" and "significant."
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And those who support the narrative that the minimum should be pushed into the $1 million range would be well-served to think before just tossing numbers out there. A "bump" to $700,000 would constitute a 22.699% raise. How many people is anyone else acquainted with that got that type of raise this year? That's three times as much as the current inflation rate (which is the highest since Reagan was in office) - not bad IMO.

How many players making the minimum performed well enough to "deserve" a 23% raise?

Who the writer works for is pretty insignificant at this point - they're down to the numbers, and they speak for themselves.
 
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