Olivera traded for Kemp

And for those that think Inciarte is going to cover for Kemp:

Ben

10:11 How much does having an elite defender in CF cancel out a bad defender in LF? Specifically referring to Inciarte & Kemp. Does Inciarte's elite defense help decrease the impact of Kemp's bad defense? Is this just wishful thinking?

Jeff Sullivan

10:12 Pretty much all wishful thinking. There is very little overlap between outfielder ranges. Tons of batted balls that will be up to Kemp and Kemp alone

Yeah we know this to be horse****. People at FG will never, ever admit their fielding formulas have some serious flaws. Good defensive players make others around them better quite frequently. It's no coincidence notably bad defenders have some of their best defensive seasons while playing next to great defenders.
 
Yeah we know this to be horse****. People at FG will never, ever admit their fielding formulas have some serious flaws. Good defensive players make others around them better quite frequently. It's no coincidence notably bad defenders have some of their best defensive seasons while playing next to great defenders.

technically true. The vast majority of LF will be on Kemp. Inciarte can't cover the entire of.

But in real life Inciarte should allow us to do some positioning that helps to cover Kemp.

I'm not asking Kemp to make a bunch of diving catches.
 
Yeah we know this to be horse****. People at FG will never, ever admit their fielding formulas have some serious flaws. Good defensive players make others around them better quite frequently. It's no coincidence notably bad defenders have some of their best defensive seasons while playing next to great defenders.

You have zero proof for your statement and have no clue what you are talking about.
 
You have zero proof for your statement and have no clue what you are talking about.

So there aren't bad defensive players that have some of their best years defensively next to great defenders?

We know for a FACT that defensive shifts/positioning are not calculated into defensive stats.

But please, keep talking out your ass and providing no value to the conversation. Everyone is used to it by now.
 
So would you trade JT right now to teams who only view him was a MOR starter?

Why is this so hard for you to comprehend?

Keeping Teheran is fine. The Kemp trade was fine. Doing both moves was stupid.

Either keep Teheran and acquire other good players to compete in 2017, or trade Teheran.

Do not keep Teheran, acquire bad players like Kemp, and waste a valuable year of Julio's contract.

Are you capable of analyzing moves in the context of other moves? Is my logic totally nonsensical? The guys at FG and BP agree with me, so I don't think the fault in logic is on my side.
 
So there aren't bad defensive players that have some of their best years defensively next to great defenders?

We know for a FACT that defensive shifts/positioning are not calculated into defensive stats.



But please, keep talking out your ass and providing no value to the conversation. Everyone is used to it by now.

LOL, you don't know what you are talking about per usual.
 
See Andruw Jones for proof. Explain to me why defenders got better when going to Atlanta when he was here.

So you are using a sample of 1 to prove this? Have you gone back to analyze before and after Andruw (adjusting for age) for every player that played beside him? Have you done that analysis for other good defenders? Have you measured the affect INciarte has had on our current outfielders? Pillar? the CF from Tampa?
 
Why is this so hard for you to comprehend?

Keeping Teheran is fine. The Kemp trade was fine. Doing both moves was stupid.

Either keep Teheran and acquire other good players to compete in 2017, or trade Teheran.

Do not keep Teheran, acquire bad players like Kemp, and waste a valuable year of Julio's contract.

Are you capable of analyzing moves in the context of other moves? Is my logic totally nonsensical? The guys at FG and BP agree with me, so I don't think the fault in logic is on my side.

So you are against keeping JT regardless if the Braves don't intend on competing?
 
Why is this so hard for you to comprehend?

Keeping Teheran is fine. The Kemp trade was fine. Doing both moves was stupid.

Either keep Teheran and acquire other good players to compete in 2017, or trade Teheran.

Do not keep Teheran, acquire bad players like Kemp, and waste a valuable year of Julio's contract.
Are you capable of analyzing moves in the context of other moves? Is my logic totally nonsensical? The guys at FG and BP agree with me, so I don't think the fault in logic is on my side.

You do realize that you're analyzing this move without any context of future moves for 2017 right?
 
So you are against keeping JT regardless if the Braves don't intend on competing?

Constrained by the limits of common sense, yes.

His value is not going up, ever. He is the pitcher he is going to be, and his value is what his value is going to be. He is healthy, he is pitching as well as he is going to pitch, his contract is as good as it's ever going to be, and he is at peak value.

If the Braves are not going to compete in 2017 they need to cash in Teheran to the highest bidder. That is, by definition, his "value".
 
So you are using a sample of 1 to prove this? Have you gone back to analyze before and after Andruw (adjusting for age) for every player that played beside him? Have you done that analysis for other good defenders? Have you measured the affect INciarte has had on our current outfielders? Pillar? the CF from Tampa?

So why was Gary Sheffield a -21 defender in 2001 and 2004? But only -5 in 2002 and 2003? JD has by far his best year defensively when he was in Atlanta. Those are just a couple of examples. How many do you need?
 
And the chances that baseball teams are run that way are nil. Unused payroll is not carried over from year.

Im not sure why you think that. Teams don't simply distribute excess funds equally between shareholders. The Nationals, for example, are putting away money to offer Bryce in a few years.
 
Constrained by the limits of common sense, yes.

His value is not going up, ever. He is the pitcher he is going to be, and his value is what his value is going to be. He is healthy, he is pitching as well as he is going to pitch, his contract is as good as it's ever going to be, and he is at peak value.

If the Braves are not going to compete in 2017 they need to cash in Teheran to the highest bidder. That is, by definition, his "value".

The only caveat I will say abut this is if he keeps his results up right now going forward his value would be higher to higher payroll teams. To the smaller and mid market teams his value is likely at it's peak. But a trade with those teams is likely an offseason move. If the narrative of JT goes from MOR to upper end then his value will rise as well. Last year (especially the first half) did happen and it brought his stock down. Continue good results will show that as a blip on the radar and nothing to be concerned about.
 
So why was Gary Sheffield a -21 defender in 2001 and 2004? But only -5 in 2002 and 2003? JD has by far his best year defensively when he was in Atlanta. Those are just a couple of examples. How many do you need?

Then Sheffield was a -3 in 05 playing next to a terrible defender in Bernie. The analysis is way more complex than "hey a defender had a good year defensively (small sample) next to 1 guy (possibly the greatest defensive CF of all time).
 
Then Sheffield was a -3 in 05 playing next to a terrible defender in Bernie. The analysis is way more complex than "hey a defender had a good year defensively (small sample) next to 1 guy (possibly the greatest defensive CF of all time).

If by -3 in 05 you mean -34 you would right. To me it's common sense. For an elite CF he isn't confined to just his CF area. He can roam into LF and RF's area. Given that the LF or RF would then shade closer to the line thus increasing the overall range of the outfield.
 
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