Olivera traded for Kemp

auyushu said:
Why would I want to put you on ignore? If we all had the same opinions and thought the same the world would be one boring place for sure. This is a place for discussion about a team we all love to root for (or at least I hope so anyway, with Niners I think that could be questionable at this juncture), but I hardly expect everyone to agree with me.

And like I said, I consider you a good poster the majority of the time. I'm not trying to dampen your enthusiasm about anything, but you'll go on streaks constantly make jabbing and gotcha type posts with SSS stat posts like you are proving a point, which tends to make you look a bit zany at times. Like you pumping up Kemp's stats until wupk showed you were wrong about his stats, then you flipped the script and tried to claim he was helping by pumping up Freeman's stats.

Nothing wrong with being a sunshine pumper, but you tend to stray into "if you aren't with us your against us!" territory at times, which is a bit of a narrow viewpoint. The fact that we are all posting here on a consistent basis makes us all rabid fans, there is just a huge spectrum. You have the FO followers and hardcore sunshine pumpers like yourself and KB21, middle of the road guys with a wait and see attitude like myself, and then people with a battered wife syndrome like Sturg33 who are going to be negative about everything until the FO proves themselves beyond a shadow of a doubt, and everyone in between.
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And I still hold the belief that Kemp is a huge part of the reason the offense has performed better. I know the numbers-guys don't believe protection exists, but the simple fact of the matter is that those spreadsheets aren't in Pitchers' heads when they're on the mound with Freeman in the box and Kemp in the on-deck circle. As a former college golfer and golf professional, I've always likened those thoughts and feelings to those that guys got when certain players made birdies in front of or behind them. Nothing in either sport is "easy", but it's much easier to focus and execute your shots when that someone making those birdies wasn't Tiger in his heyday. It was tougher to focus and execute when you knew it was him because you knew those birdies may well keep coming. Only the better players are able to put the "who" out of their minds in those situations and focus on the task at hand much the same as only the better Pitchers are able to put who's in the on-deck circle out of their minds.

The offense has been better (even though Kemp's not putting up numbers) because the other guys are in roles that better fit their skills - the perception that there's "protection" for Freddie exists, and everybody else can just do what they're good at - for now. I do think Kemp's going to have to do something relatively soon to keep that feeling that the lineup is much deeper because of him going though. As hot as Freeman is, it's borderline idiotic to pitch to him right now. If he gets pitched around a few times over the next week and Kemp doesn't deliver, I agree that the perception that he's going to be a big piece of the puzzle moving forward will be short-lived.
 
clvclv said:
The offense has been better (even though Kemp's not putting up numbers) because the other guys are in roles that better fit their skills - the perception that there's "protection" for Freddie exists, and everybody else can just do what they're good at - for now.
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The offense has been better because the majority of the lineup has been hitting over .300 since the all star break, it has absolutely nothing to do with Kemp. Our offense was performing much better before we even made that trade. I actually think lineup protection exists to a small amount, mainly due to the best hitter being pitched around if your other hitters suck. Lineup protection generally has a very minimal effect on stats however.

You are attributing something to Kemp's presence that had already happened before he even got here. Our offense has been good because Aybar, Inciarte, Garcia, Markakis, and Recker are all hitting over .300 with OPS right around .800 or higher since the all star break, it has nada to do with Kemp. When you have players on base all over the place, nobody can get pitched around.
 
auyushu said:
Why would I want to put you on ignore? If we all had the same opinions and thought the same the world would be one boring place for sure. This is a place for discussion about a team we all love to root for (or at least I hope so anyway, with Niners I think that could be questionable at this juncture), but I hardly expect everyone to agree with me.

And like I said, I consider you a good poster the majority of the time. I'm not trying to dampen your enthusiasm about anything, but you'll go on streaks constantly make jabbing and gotcha type posts with SSS stat posts like you are proving a point, which tends to make you look a bit zany at times. Like you pumping up Kemp's stats until wupk showed you were wrong about his stats, then you flipped the script and tried to claim he was helping by pumping up Freeman's stats.

Nothing wrong with being a sunshine pumper, but you tend to stray into "if you aren't with us your against us!" territory at times, which is a bit of a narrow viewpoint. The fact that we are all posting here on a consistent basis makes us all rabid fans, there is just a huge spectrum. You have the FO followers and hardcore sunshine pumpers like yourself and KB21, middle of the road guys with a wait and see attitude like myself, and then people with a battered wife syndrome like Sturg33 who are going to be negative about everything until the FO proves themselves beyond a shadow of a doubt, and everyone in between.
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hey now!
 
clvclv said:
And I still hold the belief that Kemp is a huge part of the reason the offense has performed better. I know the numbers-guys don't believe protection exists, but the simple fact of the matter is that those spreadsheets aren't in Pitchers' heads when they're on the mound with Freeman in the box and Kemp in the on-deck circle. As a former college golfer and golf professional, I've always likened those thoughts and feelings to those that guys got when certain players made birdies in front of or behind them. Nothing in either sport is "easy", but it's much easier to focus and execute your shots when that someone making those birdies wasn't Tiger in his heyday. It was tougher to focus and execute when you knew it was him because you knew those birdies may well keep coming. Only the better players are able to put the "who" out of their minds in those situations and focus on the task at hand much the same as only the better Pitchers are able to put who's in the on-deck circle out of their minds.

The offense has been better (even though Kemp's not putting up numbers) because the other guys are in roles that better fit their skills - the perception that there's "protection" for Freddie exists, and everybody else can just do what they're good at - for now. I do think Kemp's going to have to do something relatively soon to keep that feeling that the lineup is much deeper because of him going though. As hot as Freeman is, it's borderline idiotic to pitch to him right now. If he gets pitched around a few times over the next week and Kemp doesn't deliver, I agree that the perception that he's going to be a big piece of the puzzle moving forward will be short-lived.
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I agree with your thesis. Because it is not quantifiable doesn't mean there's not some collateral impact. Anybody who has tried to hit a nine-run home run or squeezed the bat to sawdust ought to get that.

It also falls in line with my theory of "critical mass." As in, your lineup needs to achieve a certain base level of production from enough spots to be productive. I think we're approaching that level now.
 
clvclv said:
And I still hold the belief that Kemp is a huge part of the reason the offense has performed better. I know the numbers-guys don't believe protection exists, but the simple fact of the matter is that those spreadsheets aren't in Pitchers' heads when they're on the mound with Freeman in the box and Kemp in the on-deck circle. As a former college golfer and golf professional, I've always likened those thoughts and feelings to those that guys got when certain players made birdies in front of or behind them. Nothing in either sport is "easy", but it's much easier to focus and execute your shots when that someone making those birdies wasn't Tiger in his heyday. It was tougher to focus and execute when you knew it was him because you knew those birdies may well keep coming. Only the better players are able to put the "who" out of their minds in those situations and focus on the task at hand much the same as only the better Pitchers are able to put who's in the on-deck circle out of their minds.

The offense has been better (even though Kemp's not putting up numbers) because the other guys are in roles that better fit their skills - the perception that there's "protection" for Freddie exists, and everybody else can just do what they're good at - for now. I do think Kemp's going to have to do something relatively soon to keep that feeling that the lineup is much deeper because of him going though. As hot as Freeman is, it's borderline idiotic to pitch to him right now. If he gets pitched around a few times over the next week and Kemp doesn't deliver, I agree that the perception that he's going to be a big piece of the puzzle moving forward will be short-lived.
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Pitchers would have to fear Kemp in that case. Outside of occasionally running into one, I don't think pitchers fear Matt Kemp. You know you don't even have to throw him a strike.
 
gilesfan said:
Pitchers would have to fear Kemp in that case. Outside of occasionally running into one, I don't think pitchers fear Matt Kemp. You know you don't even have to throw him a strike.
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Truer than not. But I think it's reversible. He was reasonably selective for many years in LA.
 
gilesfan said:
Pitchers would have to fear Kemp in that case. Outside of occasionally running into one, I don't think pitchers fear Matt Kemp. You know you don't even have to throw him a strike.
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Sure looks like that lately, which is going to put us right back where we were pretty soon if he doesn't run into those when teams pitch around Freddie. If his OBP doesn't start trending back towards his career norms, you wonder if we're better off with Markakis behind Freeman - whether he's comfortable there or not.

I'm sure the hope has been that he's going to calm down and not chase so much once he settles in. Don't think you can completely place the blame on the fact that he has been living out of his suitcase for some time and doesn't even have a place to stay in Atlanta yet, but I find it hard to believe that that doesn't make things tough as well.

We're all guessing at this point, but I think the trade can't help but be positive in the long run since it 1.) got rid of Olivera, 2.) brought RH power without costing prospects, and 3.) did so without needing to play at the top of the free-agent market with a 5 year deal. Just how big a positive remains to be seen, but I personally don't think it's a huge stretch to think it could be a big win if he's only a .270/.330/.470 hitter behind Freeman.
 
GovClintonTyree said:
Truer than not. But I think it's reversible. He was reasonably selective for many years in LA.
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Kemp was never a patient hitter. He's a career 7.6% walk guy who topped out at 10% in 1 year. Now that hes going to be 32 with the possibility of his bat slowing, I don't see how the walk rate will all of a sudden make a climb.

And unfortunately, I see now he's back to a 0 WAR on the season.
 
Someone is still arguing that Kemp is somehow responsible for Freeman's good hitting, and I can only assume it's one of the idiots I have on ignore.

Does that idiot not realize that Freeman starting hitting well before Kemp got to Atlanta? Or was Kemp somehow protecting Freeman from the 4 slot in the SD lineup?

Freeman had a 1.080 OPS in June, a .907 OPS in July and a 1.233 OPS in August so far because he is a great hitter in his prime who is having an excellent few months. Not because he has a guy putting up a .663 OPS since coming to Atlanta hitting behind him.

I definitely think lineup protection is undervalued by stat-heads, but Kemp isn't providing any protection of any kind to anyone. The only positive sign I have seen from Kemp since becoming a Brave is that he looks to be more disciplined at the plate than he was in SD, so if he can get straightened out he does have the potential to be an impact 800+ OPS bat in this lineup.
 
Enscheff said:
Someone is still arguing that Kemp is somehow responsible for Freeman's good hitting, and I can only assume it's one of the idiots I have on ignore.

Does that idiot not realize that Freeman starting hitting well before Kemp got to Atlanta? Or was Kemp somehow protecting Freeman from the 4 slot in the SD lineup?

Freeman had a 1.080 OPS in June, a .907 OPS in July and a 1.233 OPS in August so far because he is a great hitter in his prime who is having an excellent few months. Not because he has a guy putting up a .663 OPS since coming to Atlanta hitting behind him.

I definitely think lineup protection is undervalued by stat-heads, but Kemp isn't providing any protection of any kind to anyone. The only positive sign I have seen from Kemp since becoming a Brave is that he looks to be more disciplined at the plate than he was in SD, so if he can get straightened out he does have the potential to be an impact 800+ OPS bat in this lineup.
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clv will go to great lengths to justify anything the Braves do.
 
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