Could you elaborate a bit? Why would this affect other potential Cuban players? Olivera wasn't mistreated in any way by the Braves organization. Something similar was uttered over at Scout after the dust started to settle from the Kawakami situation, but that time regarding Japanese players.
Olivera traded for Kemp
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Could you elaborate a bit? Why would this affect other potential Cuban players? Olivera wasn't mistreated in any way by the Braves organization. Something similar was uttered over at Scout after the dust started to settle from the Kawakami situation, but that time regarding Japanese players.
Fool me once shame on you. Fool me twice...you can't fool me again.
Russ2dollas
10 yr, $185 million Extension
What I meant is that we are likely gun shy to offer those players, not that those players wouldn't take our money.
Coppy literally said the Braves were out on Lazarito (or Gurriel, I can't remember), and his reason was they saw how Olivera worked out. I hope he was kidding, but it would be a shame to pass on Cuban talent because the Braves failed to see he couldn't play 3B or hit while he was playing AAA baseball in the US.
No way should there still be some air of mystery, surrounding Cuban players, even with the embargo. MLB team used scouts from other Latin American countries to obtain scouting data on Cuban players, especially during winter leagues and Carribean World Series. That's how specific players could be targeted, if there was a chance of defection.
Freeman is a top 5 MLB 1B this season. I wonder if certain people still don't consider him a 1st tier player.
Horsehide Harry
<B>Mr. Free Trade</B>
I will be the first to say that I have long considered Freeman NOT a top 5 MLB 1B, more like a next 5. This year he has played better than that, especially considering the terrible team he is on and those who play around him.
If he can consistently put up 35 HR, .285, .360, .550 then he will likely remain as a top 5 in MLB 1B and be a bargain for his contract.
That still doesn't change the fact that he is likely more valuable to this team and those near term for what he could command in return by way of trade than being the lone bright star in a sea of fog.
Trading Freeman pushes the timetable out a few more years. He's the best hitter in the entire org.
You are undoubtedly right. The FA market is so abysmally awful the next 2 offseasons that it is highly unlikely the Braves are able to build themselves into a true contender before the 2019 season. Given that timetable, the Braves should absolutely trade the present value of both Freeman and Teheran for the future value of whatever prospects they can return in trade.
Problem is, as evidenced by the Kemp acquisition, the Braves need to at least make it appear that they are trying to win going into the new stadium. This little streak of decent baseball they've been playing is going to feed into that illusion, and it will cost the organization in the long run as far as overall talent assets are concerned.
With the amount of time its going to take to compete, we arent getting Freeman in his prime on a competing team for very long.
UNCBlue012
Well-known member
It was talked about in the offseason on here, but I'd still love a deal centered around Dozier.
Could-be lineup:
Albies SS
Dozier 2B
Freeman 1B
Kemp LF
Ramos C
Swanson 3B
Inciarte CF
Pitcher
Smith RF
I'm sure Swanson would be higher, but I'm just spitballing
Could-be lineup:
Albies SS
Dozier 2B
Freeman 1B
Kemp LF
Ramos C
Swanson 3B
Inciarte CF
Pitcher
Smith RF
I'm sure Swanson would be higher, but I'm just spitballing
50PoundHead
Hessmania Forever
I want no part of any Cuban player who is beyond his early 20s. There are exceptions (Orlando Hernandez, Yohan Cespedes), but I think you're playing for the inside straight with most of them. But even with the younger Cuban players, the performance has not matched the hype on a vast majority of them.
Trading for Uggla again? How often do power hitting 2B last?
Playing Swanson at 3B lessens his value and his bat at 2nd isnt like his bat at 3B.
zbhargrove
Well-known member
Agree with you on this one... Dozier is already showing signs of regression.
But you will still have him and at then below market value prices. If the Braves are ready to win and need that middle of the order hitter in 2019 they will either have to ship out a boatload of prospects or spend near 30 million a year on a long contract for one. I would rather just keep the one we have.
Horsehide Harry
<B>Mr. Free Trade</B>
You keep the one you have you don't get the ones he would bring in trade AND you still have to pay him AND you have to hope he remains as good as now, or nearly so, isn't injured along the way or doesn't diminish in skills.
By 2019 he will be 29 going on 30 and making $21M. Chances are, he will still be as good as he is now. But there's always a chance he hurts his wrist again, or develops vision problems or whatever. If you could trade him for 3 or 4 players who will have an impact on the 2019 team, even if no single one is as good as Freeman would ideally be that year, it is still better to trade him because you get those players PLUS you get the $21M to put towards signing someone who IS as good or better if necessary.
I will give you a "for instance" and not that I think this will or even would necessarily happen: Trade Freeman to the Yanks for OF Frazier, OF Judge, OF Rutherford and C McCann with the Braves taking all of McCann's money. The Yanks get a top five 1B, clear McCann and his salary. The Braves get three future OF and an overpay, but a useful one, in a catcher to mentor the young pitching staff. Also, McCann offsets the stadium issue, bringing back a Georgia boy while shipping out Freeman. Then you sign Hosmer and/or Moustakas in a couple of years.
Again, not saying that the trade is anything real. But, it's the type of thing they should be looking to do. Yes, it means no competing in 2017. But, newsflash, EVEN IF THEY HAD $100M to spend this offseason and spent it, the players aren't there to make the team as currently constructed anything better than a middle of the road pretender.
The only reason to keep Freeman and by extension Teheran is because of some misguided belief that it will make a difference in attendance in the new park next year. Keeping them might bring in marginally more people. But the only way to bring in consistently good crowds (after the new and novelty is off the stadium) is to put a winner on the field. And while Freeman and Teheran could certainly be an important part for a winner today given a good enough cast around them there are NO guarantees that they will be the same players in 2019 or even 2017.
The same might be said of players that Freeman is traded FOR. One might say that they are prospects who may not pan out at all. Certainly true. But then you still have the money that you save by trading Freeman that can be used to at least limit the damage if all goes terribly wrong whereas keeping Freeman is more of an all or nothing proposition.
For keeping Freeman to be the right move (assuming a good trade return), he would have to continue to play as well as he is or better without injury or other outside influence having a negative effect and the team would have to find good enough players to fill in around him to put a consistent winner on the field (based on timing when Freemen is still effective) that are cheap enough that you don't need Freeman's money to sign any of them aka fitting the talent in the budget. That could happen.
But its a safer bet to do it the other way.
Again that trade kicks the ball farther down the road. Trading JT would do the same thing. The fact that both are signed for below market value and only through their prime years changes things imo. If Freeman was 30 now and signed for 5 more years I would sell asap. But that's not the case. Freeman and JT won't be at the ages where they would generally be liabilities to limit us competing when our young kids are ready. They will still be in their prime and productive barring injury. Trading both of them now is something the A's would do and would delay our rebuild by another couple of years.
50PoundHead
Hessmania Forever
I can see both sides of the HH/thewupk debate, but I tend to fall on thewupk's of things. I seriously doubt we would get the kind of return on either Teheran or Freeman that would make it worth it to deal them. People can decry Coppy for being obstinate in not dealing Johnson at the deadline, but why should he just give guys away for the minor league filler he was probably being offered. Same goes here. Unless someone is ponying up future big league contributors (which I realize is never a sure thing), hang on to the the guys. I don't agree with everything Coppy has done, but I surely don't want him to be a pushover.
Trading Freeman is dumb because Swanson and Albies are ready now. If you trade Freeman, then you likely push out the competing time frame past 2019, which means Swanson and Albies will start to get expensive and have less control years remaining.
I would say the same for JT, but we have several pitchers in line who could step up within the next 2 years and replace him. But at the same time, it must be a clear win with a JT trade, with multiple ML ready players in return.
I would say the same for JT, but we have several pitchers in line who could step up within the next 2 years and replace him. But at the same time, it must be a clear win with a JT trade, with multiple ML ready players in return.