sturg33
I
I can't find the thread... but I remember starting threat before the season asking if anyone would hit 20 homers on the team. I was either laughed at or told we wouldn't need it... can't remember exactly
Olivera
- Thread starter msstate7
- Start date
I can't find the thread... but I remember starting threat before the season asking if anyone would hit 20 homers on the team. I was either laughed at or told we wouldn't need it... can't remember exactly
Diesel
Spring Training Invitee
Why do people make posts like this? It's such a character reveal and it makes me cringe when people make "I told you so!" type posts, especially when it's an 'I told you we would suck' type of deal.
sturg33
I
Perhaps you weren't around in April/May when the homers were doing victory laps around the board
78 WRC+ is BJ Upton bad. Just to put that in perspective for people. For hitters that quality Jace is rated as the 12th WORST hitter in baseball by WRC+. He has been awful.
Homeruns are overrated. Putting the ball in play is what scores runs....
Hopefully some have learned that to be false.
zitothebrave
Connoisseur of Minors
Correct, but given our other options, who else do we have to play 2B or 3B? Rio Ruiz and Olivera being healthy are important.
Horsehide Harry
<B>Mr. Free Trade</B>
What do you want people to do?
There has been a core group here that has been warning about the lack of power that gets shouted down with the whole "Pitching! Defense! Put the ball in play!" mantra citing statistics that help their argument while ignoring statistics, like the fact that only a handful of teams have actually made the playoffs much less won the WS over the last 25 years without being AT LEAST league average in HR hit, that don't fit the narrative.
The same people who want to minimize the importance of power are the same ones generally who wanted to play Jace a 2B, Simmons at SS, Peraza at 3B and put M Smith in CF and what a disaster THAT would have been.
I don't care that he's playing. We have to find out if we have something here. But people shouldn't fool themselves into the type of season he's having./
striker42
Well-known member
Per Bill Shaikin, LA Times writer:
#Dodgers GM Zaidi said Turner might have moved to 2B next year, w/Olivera at 3B. Decided to keep Turner at 3B, didn't like Olivera at 2B .
https://twitter.com/BillShaikin/status/627292928776351744
Considering the Braves are locked in on Olivera at third as well, it's a good bet he's no longer being capable of playing second. So on top of health and age, you can add in the risk of him being an enormous defensive liability as well.
#Dodgers GM Zaidi said Turner might have moved to 2B next year, w/Olivera at 3B. Decided to keep Turner at 3B, didn't like Olivera at 2B .
https://twitter.com/BillShaikin/status/627292928776351744
Considering the Braves are locked in on Olivera at third as well, it's a good bet he's no longer being capable of playing second. So on top of health and age, you can add in the risk of him being an enormous defensive liability as well.
sturg33
I
Yeah but Wood was gonna get hurt so no worries
weso1
<B>Clique Leader</B>
I think he'll have a better chance staying healthy at third base. While he's athletic, I think he's too big to be a decent 2b. Plus Albies might be ready by 2017 anyway.
I think he has 3 errors in 4 games in the minors at 2b. I think he could be an above average 3b because of his athleticism if he doesn't make many errors. His last year in Cuba he had a .991 fielding % so hopefully he's just trying to knock the rust off.
I think he has 3 errors in 4 games in the minors at 2b. I think he could be an above average 3b because of his athleticism if he doesn't make many errors. His last year in Cuba he had a .991 fielding % so hopefully he's just trying to knock the rust off.
striker42
Well-known member
I think most of his errors at third will be because of throws. I expect he'll be able to pick it okay there, I'm just not convinced at him being able to make consistent, quality throws across the diamond. That's something that could easily get worse with age. If he can't stick at third defensively, you're talking about either first or left field for him and he's much, much less valuable in those positions.
Jace is most likely nothing more than a useful starter while he is cheap, and his usefulness is tied directly to being cheap. As soon as he hits arb he is likely gone with Albies ready to take his place at 2B.
50PoundHead
Hessmania Forever
I don't know if Albies will be ready by 2017, but he'll be in the conversation around that time frame. Until then, we'll likely see J. Peterson/Castro/Others manning the position.
If Olivera hits, not much else matters unless he's a total butcher. He was acquired to hit and that's it in a nutshell. He doesn't hit and it's a terrible deal. Even if he hits, much will depend on how Wood and Peraza do as to whether or not this was a good deal. Rodriguez should help our bullpen and Bird is a solid arm who probably needs to learn how to pitch.
Not sure why how Wood or Peraza do going forward really matters. They had a certain level of value before the trade, so it's really whether Olivera makes himself worth that level of value going forward to me. Missed opportunities hurt even if the players you give up fall off the map later.
In matters in the sense that our FO misjudged the players that we gave up. Which most people on here think we undersold on them.
Well, that's kinda what I was going with there. we gave up a top 50 prospect and a guy who was at worst a high end #3 starter at the time of the trade. If Olivera doesn't pan out very well we undersold in the trade regardless of what Wood and Peraza do down the line.
zitothebrave
Connoisseur of Minors
The olivera trade may work itself out to be one of the worst trades a Braves GM has made in many many years. Given the questions around Olivera, etc.
But I don't think losing Peraza is really that bad. Odds are by 2017 ALbies will be ready he should hit enough IMO to finish in AA next year, and he should be everybit as good if not better than Peraza. But where this stings is we're handcuffed now. We turned depth into nothing. We had an incredibly strong SS depth with Simmons in the majors, PEraza knocking on the door and Albies in the wings.
Imagine we keep Peraza, play him at 2B, in 2017 or 2018 we trade Simmons who's now kinda expensive and move Albies into his role. Or imagine Mallex Smith doesn't work out, move Peraza to CF and we have a CF.
We turned a position of good depth into one of average depth, and gave up Alex Wood as well.
Probably best to go back and make sure "most people on here think we undersold on them".
Tends to leave yourself open to someone making one of those "I told you so" posts.