BRule
<B>BBQ Lead Hostess</B>
This is hilarious.
Post Post-Heyward Discussion Here.
- Thread starter The Tariff King
- Start date
This is hilarious.
Tapate50
Well-known member
ramadon101
Danville Rookie
Then Jason and Casey aren't communicating because I can damn well tell you that financial numbers were discussed with Casey multiple times and the Braves did budge significantly from their initial parameters.
When someone says "you're not close", I do not think it is logical to continue discussions. Why make a disrespectful offer formally?
Anyway I'm done with this. Everyone has every right to question the merits on the return we received, whether we should have traded him now versus keeping him and letting him walk, etc. Those are perfectly fine discussions to have and frankly I will miss Jason myself. This team is better in every respect with him than without (in a vacuum not taking into account potential adds to offset his loss)- I don't think anyone is arguing otherwise. However to blame the Braves for not making an offer is asinine. No formal offer was made this offseason because it was clear they weren't in the same zipcode.
Remember- it's not like the player is sitting there with his agent every meeting going over numbers. In fact, clubs are legally only allowed to require a player's physical presence ONCE during the course of contract negotiations. I doubt many of you know this.
Anyway, back to my grind for me. Happy bitching to all.
yeezus
It's OVER 5,000!
What's the harm in reigniting talks after another season? AT LEAST see what they say. Nope, just "assumed."
BRule
<B>BBQ Lead Hostess</B>
Why would Heyward lie about NOT receiving an offer? Have the Braves come out and said we offered him a deal? If they did, I must have missed it. Why wouldn't you offer your "franchise player" a contract before exploring trade options? Because an agent says he wants 20-25 mil per? That's a joke
Heyward
<B>Voted Worst Poster <br>'13, '14, '15 (Co-Winner
Heyward wasnt signing for 18-20.
He wants around 22-25 according to what ramadon has said.
It was gonna cost around 215 to 250 million to keep him.
And what does Simmons have to do with anything?
Simmons signed for around 7 years, under 60 million total.
Unless you were talking about signing him after his rookie year which i would have done.
He wants around 22-25 according to what ramadon has said.
It was gonna cost around 215 to 250 million to keep him.
And what does Simmons have to do with anything?
Simmons signed for around 7 years, under 60 million total.
Unless you were talking about signing him after his rookie year which i would have done.
Heyward
<B>Voted Worst Poster <br>'13, '14, '15 (Co-Winner
Because of defense.
I love Heyward but he goes in incredibly long slumps on offense.
Freeman's dont last as long.
Tapate50
Well-known member
because apparently he wasn't that interested.
Metaphysicist
Not Actually Brian Hunter
Are you now saying that Heyward was offered the same extension as Freddie at the same time? Because that's would be new information and was what I was responding to.
yeezus
It's OVER 5,000!
Based on what?
ramadon101
Danville Rookie
No. Heyward was not offered the "same extension" as Freeman last offseason. The Braves did speak with his agent about a possible extension (did not discuss financial parameters) and CASEY said he and Jason would like to take a wait and see approach for the 2014 season but that they would entertain discussions after the season ended. Casey felt Jason was primed for a big year last season and that it would be in his client's best interests to wait. After the season ended and the Braves finished with their internal meetings, Billy Ryan and John Coppolella did have detailed discussions on the framework (both years and AAV) with Casey Close - none of which Jason personally attended. It was determined that they were "mountains apart" and shook hands respectfully and parted ways.
To respond to nscapi-- Casey did not indicate $25m a year over 8 years would cut it; they were closer to the 260m mark so I'm told. Whether Jason may have accepted 220 is *irrelevant* because the Braves did not value him at that amount (putting aside for a moment whether 220 over 8 years would, in fact, constitute a "discount" for Heyward off of his true market value as a FA- I'd argue that it doesn't... that's $27.5M AAV).
End of story.
nsacpi
Expects Yuge Games
So let me tease this out a little and relate it to my two scenarios thread. As I understand your post Jason's agent was asking for 26M/year for ten years. That's his opening position. I think it is reasonable to infer from that we could have signed Jason for an AAV a little less than 26 M (say 24-25M). Or for 26M/year for a slightly shorter term (8 or 9 years).
Now I understand that the team did not value Jason to justify the possibilities I mention above. So they went with what I call Scenario 2 (Markakis, Miller, Jenkins plus about 5-6M/year more in financial flexibility).
My analysis in the two scenarios thread is my way of saying I think the Braves made a mistake in choosing Scenario 2 over Scenario 1.
BRule
<B>BBQ Lead Hostess</B>
Nothing.
zitothebrave
Connoisseur of Minors
Freeman is a better hitter, Jason is a better baseball player, it's not hard to say that. I don't know if Jason will ever be as good offensively as Freddie, but he doesn't have to be because he's the best defensive RF in baseball. Freeman seems to have settled into the approx 140 wRC+ area. Jason I don't know if he'll ever hit there, but at 120 wRC+ and his much greater defense and baserunning, he's worth more than Freddie.
Russ2dollas
10 yr, $185 million Extension
I don't think the braves feel that way. It's not that they don't value D, b/c they locked up Simmons and are pushing for CB.
I don't know, but I wonder if they are thinking about premiums on up the middle defense and hitting on the outside.
Heyward is a year away from free agency. If you don't buy out any arb years, then it makes sense that 1 year from FA you go to FA. He could have a huge year and your contract will only go up with multiple bidders. Sounds like the Braves asked what the cost would be for Heyward to give up FA, and it was 260 million. The Braves clearly don't see him as that type of player.
I understand the importance of D. I understand those that really believe in WAR and defensive metrics. But it appears that the Braves do not think having an elite defender in RF is worth paying premium prices for. We can all disagree, but it seems pretty clear. Maybe if Jason was a CF it would be different.
50PoundHead
Hessmania Forever
But it's my guess that as a CF, Heyward's defensive numbers would suffer somewhat and erode his value. I'm not downplaying his defensive value, but corner OF is not a prime defensive position. I want to make it clear that doesn't mean you can stick Ryan Doumit out there and not suffer some fairly obvious consequences, but I don't think Heyward would hold his defensive measures in CF.
I just think Heyward and Close were bent on going to free agency and short of that, trying to put the Braves in a bind by negotiating throughout the 2015 season where every little move would be played out in the press. Braves didn't want to go through that and, truth be told, it would have been a huge distraction to have that hanging over the team's head. I think that is why the move happened relatively quickly.
zitothebrave
Connoisseur of Minors
If they're thinkign about that route, then why trade Justin? Lock him up.
Over the last 2 seasons he's one of the 25 best offensive players in baseball, he's a righty to pair up with Freddie. IF the Braves goal is defense up the middle and hitting on the outside they would have signed AOki, keep Justin and Gattis. ANd ran into 2015 and beyond with something like
C - Bethancourt
1B - Freeman
2B - Peraza
3B - Kubitza/Johnson
SS - Simmons
LF - Gattis
CF - Aoki
RF - Justin
Send BJ for whatever return you can get.
The Braves instead sign Markakis who's eh with the bat, he's a lefty, and he's not good defensively either. The Braves offseason is ripe with issues and it doesn't make me feel good as a fan.
Over the last 2 seasons he's one of the 25 best offensive players in baseball, he's a righty to pair up with Freddie. IF the Braves goal is defense up the middle and hitting on the outside they would have signed AOki, keep Justin and Gattis. ANd ran into 2015 and beyond with something like
C - Bethancourt
1B - Freeman
2B - Peraza
3B - Kubitza/Johnson
SS - Simmons
LF - Gattis
CF - Aoki
RF - Justin
Send BJ for whatever return you can get.
The Braves instead sign Markakis who's eh with the bat, he's a lefty, and he's not good defensively either. The Braves offseason is ripe with issues and it doesn't make me feel good as a fan.
50, Could J-Hey be as good as Druw in center? Probably not. Nobody will ever be.
Could J-Hey be comparable to Griffey Jr? I think Heyward is just as fast as Griffey Jr. and runs better routes to prevent injury.
The damage done by playing Heyward in center is it cuts back a few years on his career.
Could J-Hey be comparable to Griffey Jr? I think Heyward is just as fast as Griffey Jr. and runs better routes to prevent injury.
The damage done by playing Heyward in center is it cuts back a few years on his career.
BRule
<B>BBQ Lead Hostess</B>
BINGO!
Trade your best player, going to trade your 2nd best player and put out that you're rebuilding for 2016/2017.....then you sign Nick ****ING Markakis for 45 mil. WHY??????? If you're going to do that, keep Upton and go for it without Heyward. It's just stupid and screams that Hart has no plan or direction.