Rosenthal: Braves players frustrated with Fredi; he has "lost the clubhouse"

50PoundHead said:
Something that hasn't been mentioned much since it happened is when Fredi didn't go to the wall for Wood when Wood had a meltdown due to what he viewed as inconsistent calls by the homeplate ump. Those types of things do add up.

I've been harping on the trade of Kelly Johnson and Juan Uribe a lot and I know it wouldn't have made that much difference in the team's performance (and we did get two mid-level arms that could contribute in the deal), but the revolving door that was installed in August can't do much for clubhouse atmosphere. Add to that the fact that our pitching has pretty much fallen apart and a team can deflate rapidly and dramatically. Even when a team knows deep down that it's not going to be a playoff contender, guys want to at least be competitive and when the white flag was unfurled a little over a month ago, the gentle breezes that were merely nudging the boat simply stopped and everything came to a screeching halt.

Again, I'm not wedded to Fredi. If there's someone who the team feels comfortable in putting in place and seeing through the re-build, I'm all for it. This is kind of reminding me when Russ Nixon got bounced in 1990. He was an old-time baseball guy saddled with a bunch of talented youngsters who were learning on the job. The state of the team is a little different here in that it's Freeman and a bunch of mid-ceiling (at best) guys, but I get the feeling that Fredi doesn't see them preparing and he's carping about it.
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That's exactly the kind of thing that I think has made an impact.
 
Fredi not sticking up for Alex when getting tossed while walking away from an ump was a turning point for me. Bobby would never have stood for that.
 
mossy said:
Fredi not sticking up for Alex when getting tossed while walking away from an ump was a turning point for me. Bobby would never have stood for that.
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What really disappointed me about that is that he didn't stick up for Alex after the game, either—just kinda insinuated that Alex should have kept his composure. Now, I think that's fine to say to Alex in private as part of a broader discussion, but I imagine that Bobby would have taken a different approach in his public comments.

When Freddie got tossed between innings that time (Joe West?), Fredi's comment was to the effect of "I don't know what happened. I didn't see it."
 
The thing is, if you're Fredi Gonzalez, you pretty much have to be a perfect manager of people to get by. I'm a big believer in the idea that the most important aspects of a manager's job are the ones that are least visible- the stuff that goes on behind the scenes matters more than the on-field strategizing, however easier the latter is to observe. Certainly no one thought of Bobby as a brilliant tactician or in-game manager during his last six or seven years, but he was so universally beloved in the clubhouse that it didn't really matter.

And since Fredi's never going to be regarded as much of a tactician, he really needs to get the people stuff right. Even a hint of discord isn't really acceptable.
 
I can't believe more people aren't pointing fingers at Roger McDowell. Sure, there have been injuries, but I defy anyone to point out a pitcher who has improved during the 2015 season. Folty, Wisler, Perez were all more effective their first five starts than since ... Vizcaino did most of his rehab and sharpening away from Atlanta.

Would not miss him.
 
Shelby Miller. Johbson.
rico43 said:
I can't believe more people aren't pointing fingers at Roger McDowell. Sure, there have been injuries, but I defy anyone to point out a pitcher who has improved during the 2015 season. Folty, Wisler, Perez were all more effective their first five starts than since ... Vizcaino did most of his rehab and sharpening away from Atlanta.

Would not miss him.
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Roger has suddenly gone from a pitching coach that was so good JS had to personally step in to resign him before another team (the Phils?) signed him away, to being a main reason behind this terrible season?
 
Enscheff said:
Roger has suddenly gone from a pitching coach that was so good JS had to personally step in to resign him before another team (the Phils?) signed him away, to being a main reason behind this terrible season?
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Again, asking who has improved in this season.
 
Enscheff said:
Roger has suddenly gone from a pitching coach that was so good JS had to personally step in to resign him before another team (the Phils?) signed him away, to being a main reason behind this terrible season?
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I've thought for 3 years he's gotten a free pass. l .

Who has improved? Not just this season -- outside of Kimbrell the Braves haven't had a marketable pitcher in 10-15 years! Plus, at the MLB level this team has an inordinate number of injuries
 
rico43 said:
I can't believe more people aren't pointing fingers at Roger McDowell. Sure, there have been injuries, but I defy anyone to point out a pitcher who has improved during the 2015 season. Folty, Wisler, Perez were all more effective their first five starts than since ... Vizcaino did most of his rehab and sharpening away from Atlanta.

Would not miss him.
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I have not been that high on McDowell for a while, even back when Philly tried to take him from us I was not concerned. He is very overrated considering his actually track record and also we cannot just blame Fredi alone for all these pitchers going down with injuries since McDowell is the pitching coach and Fredi seems to listen to him quite a bit on such matters.
 
Certain coaches are better in areas than others. For instance, Leo became a very poor pitching coach after he found fame UNLESS he had a veteran to work with.

I think McDowell is the same way now. Give him a veteran like Shelby Miller to work with or Johnson or Grilli and he does good work. Give him an OJT rookie and not so much.

A lot of times for high end guys it involves finding the right guy at the right time. Don Baylor was that guy with Chipper when he made him go with a heavier bat and start hitting for some power instead of going with the light bat and relying on his speed.
 
I've always supported Fredi against most internet criticism but I do have a gripe with him and it's a big one: he's a terrible communicator. I know English is his 2nd language but his interviews are amateurish. He always comes across nervous and speaks too fast, often repeating some cliche several times. Communication is a huge part of his job and he should be spending time in the off-season working on it. If he does he needs a new tutor.

If he uses that nervous Nellie, mealy mouthed routine in the clubhouse, then I could see how he could quickly lose the respect of players.
 
Runnin said:
I've always supported Fredi against most internet criticism but I do have a gripe with him and it's a big one: he's a terrible communicator. I know English is his 2nd language but his interviews are amateurish. He always comes across nervous and speaks too fast, often repeating some cliche several times. Communication is a huge part of his job and he should be spending time in the off-season working on it. If he does he needs a new tutor.

If he uses that nervous Nellie, mealy mouthed routine in the clubhouse, then I could see how he could quickly lose the respect of players.
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Agree entirely. It's all too easy to think the guy is a dope, regardless of whether or not he is one, because his post-game PCs just sound...well, bad, just as you describe.

One pet peeve of mine is that he always asks the reporters to fill in little details about the game for him. Like last night: "What did he have? Five strikeouts?" He does it OVER and OVER, and even if it's just a rhetorical tic, the sum impression is that he's not engaged. Dude, take 30 seconds to peep at the box score before you sit down and talk to the press.
 
It seems like it would be The Braves Way to bring in another Cox protege, but I hope they'd consider cutting the cord. Like 50 says, fresh eyes. Let Copp bring in his guy when he gets the reins.
 
50PoundHead said:
I hope that if they fire Fredi, they go outside the organization and bring in a whole new set of eyes and ears. If there's anyone in the system I'd consider, it would be Mississippi manager Aaron Holbert, but he's never managed above AA.
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I'm a huge proponent of going outside the organization to hire all of our coaches. Much easier to fire them if they are not good at what they do. I remember when UT hired former UT great D-linemen Chuck Smith as D-line coach. Well turns out he was a horrible coach. It was a nightmare when they had to fire him.
 
Julio3000 said:
It seems like it would be The Braves Way to bring in another Cox protege, but I hope they'd consider cutting the cord. Like 50 says, fresh eyes. Let Copp bring in his guy when he gets the reins.
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The reason I mentioned Holbert is he's familiar with the system and has had some success in Mississippi. He worked his way through the Cardinals' system and did make it to the major leagues briefly, so he knows what it takes to play at the big league level. He's relatively young (42) and did manage in the Arizona Fall League a few years back.
 
50PoundHead said:
The reason I mentioned Holbert is he's familiar with the system and has had some success in Mississippi. He worked his way through the Cardinals' system and did make it to the major leagues briefly, so he knows what it takes to play at the big league level. He's relatively young (42) and did manage in the Arizona Fall League a few years back.
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I don't pretend to have a clue, but I'd prefer a younger guy get the job, and a former player is a plus in my book.
 
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