not sure how this is a defense haha.
Quinn is
1). Never healthy and
2). Hasn't been good when he's played.
if they were relying on him as any kind of backup or depth at all, that's another failure.
Rubber game vs Phillies
- Thread starter msstate7
- Start date
not sure how this is a defense haha.
Quinn is
1). Never healthy and
2). Hasn't been good when he's played.
if they were relying on him as any kind of backup or depth at all, that's another failure.
msstate7
Well-known member
Quinn isn't great by any means; but if he plays late Friday night, we almost certainly lose.
They have what 4-5 relievers on IL? I think we're better than them even when they're at full strength, but they are pretty beat up at the moment.
bravesfanMatt
Steve Harvey'd
I think 6
so if a guy who has absolutely never been healthy happened to be healthy, they would've beat the Braves. again: if they relied on Quinn even a tiny little bit, for anything at all, it was a failure and a bad call.
they have 5. one had been terrible (Robertson) and one who's been hurt all year who they knew was hurt and wouldn't be pitching (Hunter). they did extremely little in the offseason pitching-wise. signed an old RP and traded for an ineffective one. that's it. all that money, and that's what they did.
they may be a tad more banged up than the average team, but it's hardly the reason they're struggling.
striker42
Well-known member
The same argument could be used for us with Viz and O'Day. If those guys had been healthy we might have swept the series. Almost every team has a couple of oft injured players that would be impact players if healthy but who can't be relied upon.
Viz was traded, but i get and agree with your point.
Quinn's MO is literally always being hurt. they had no backup plan AT ALL if a starter got hurt. they're just a poorly built team.
their starters haven't even been hurt much this year. they just aren't good. Arrieta is regressing further (duh). Nola is the only guy on their staff with more than 2 pitches. Pivetta and Velasquez have predictably come back down to earth (as they started doing towards the end of last year).
msstate7
Well-known member
Knapp is 0.0 FWIW
beat me to it
Not that a lone. But Swanson has improved for example and the Braves as a whole have likely over performed a bit. DK coming aboard helps with it as well. That being said the team is now projected to win 90 games overall while going 48 and 42 the rest of the way.
nsacpi
Expects Yuge Games
That's sort of the question I am asking. Are the things that are getting us to outperform projections (including Swanson playing well) real or just random fluctuations.
We have so far gotten fairly significant positive surprises from Swanson, Acuna, the two catchers, Teheran, Fried, Soroka and Riley.
Negative surprises from Inciarte, Folty, Gausman, Camargo, the pen as a whole, Newcomb.
Looking at starting pitching its roughly a wash relative to expectations with Fried, Soroka and Teheran offsetting Folty, Gausman and Newcomb.
With respect to the lineup, the upside surprises predominate so far. Riley is the one who I think we can all peg as performing in a clearly unsustainable way. The others have a good chance of sustaining things.
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striker42
Well-known member
In my head I was thinking that if Viz was healthy he wouldn't have been traded. I now realize I didn't actually put that down. But I agree. It's poor roster construction to rely on the health of oft injured players. And when those guys get hurt, it's a weak excuse to blame your team's poor performance on the injuries.
That's the thing with projection systems.
Every team projected for 85 wins isn't created equally. The Braves were a young 85 win team, so the chances of guys performing at a higher level than a projection system suggest they will is more likely than an old team beating their projections.
The Braves are also forming themselves after the Dodgers model of keeping around a lot of MLB caliber players. While the Dodgers can do this simply by spending a lot of cash, both teams do this by relentlessly chasing value additions, and staying away from sunk payroll at almost all costs. Folks mock "value" and "flexibility", but that value and flexibility is precisely what allows the Braves to have such a deep and talented team.
It's real with some luck. I think 90 wins right now is a good base line for the team for the rest of the season.
nsacpi
Expects Yuge Games
I think of the Dodgers model as "Deep Depth." The deep depth comes from several components:
1) Versatility of position players
2) Not having any replacement level players on the roster (or at least trying to minimize their at bats and innings pitched)
3) Having a strong "second bench" in AAA and using that shuttle between AAA and the majors aggressively
4) Being willing to move pitchers between the pen and rotation as form and need dictate (which has the benefit of not having an exhausted group of starters when the post-season rolls around)
The Braves have very much followed that template this year. We even have a very good spare part (Duvall) in AAA that is still in our back pocket.
The point you make about avoiding sunk costs is much more important to the Braves than the Dodgers. It the reason 1-year contracts (Donaldson, McCann, Keuchel, Muk) are so much better than multi-year deals (Brantley, McCutchen, Kimbrel), especially for players in their 30s.
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I've got them pegged at 93 wins. September is gonna look really good for us. Lots of mediocre teams there to beat up on. KC, Toronto, White Sox, Mets, Nats, Phillies.