Second ('Third') Trump Presidency Thread

mqt said:
But there’s nothing genetically relevant that drives an individual Haitian person toward criminality, just as there’s nothing inherently driving an individual in American from being hateful toward Haitians. We are all ultimately products of the environment in which we are raised. A big part of my view on immigration and foreign policy centers around rejecting the premise that Americans *deserve* a quality of life that a Haitian does not simply because we won the cosmic lottery that birthed us into the country that won the weapons/natural resources race 200 years ago. As such, I aim for public policies that take steps to lift up as many others as possible, regardless of their place of birth.
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The average IQ of Hatians is in the 60s or 70s. I dont know what explains that, but it is what it is.

These countries have had decades and centuries to replicate modern societies to flourish and simply haven't. Why would we want that here?
 
sturg33 said:
The average IQ of Hatians is in the 60s or 70s. I dont know what explains that, but it is what it is.

These countries have had decades and centuries to replicate modern societies to flourish and simply haven't. Why would we want that here?
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This sounds like a fairly accurate description of some of the hollows in West Virginia. In spite of many generations in this country with all the opportunities that come with that they still lag far behind. What gives.
 
nsacpi said:
This sounds like a fairly accurate description of some of the hollows in West Virginia. In spite of many generations in this country with all the opportunities that come with that they still lag far behind. What gives.
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I dont know but I suspect you dont want the rest of the country to embrace and emulate West VA ideology and policies
 
I'm just curious. I've met far more highly skilled and successful Haitians (including the pediatrician who delivered one of my children) than West Virginians.
 
sturg33 said:
The average OQ of Hatians is in the 60s or 70s. I dont know what explains that, but it is what it is.

These countries have had decades and centuries to replicate modern societies to flourish and simply haven't. Why would we want that here?
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Two environmental elements can explain the outcomes every bit as well as a non-environmental one:

First, IQ is a metric that does not necessarily track what some thinks it tracks. While I do believe people differ in their natural ability, IQ relies on a process that I don’t believe isolates that ability from the environmental causes. It also tracks a very specific type of intelligence and test-taking aptitude that does not encompass all that makes someone intelligent. It’s also very much worth noting a lot of the studies cited by those who support arguments based on IQ difference in racial groups were directly funded and conducted by groups that favor eugenics either conceptually or in practice.

Second, we kind of took all the stuff. What exactly is the Hatian government going to do to compete with the United States on the global stage? It might be a true statement that these countries have been third-world countries for a long time, but they can’t very well acquire new natural resources or magically become richer to better serve their citizens. There are certainly steps these countries can take, but both internal and external barriers exist that can derail those efforts. I see no reason to demonize an individual Hatian person for this.
 
If there isn't enough room in the country I'd be for deporting the West Virginians and keeping the Haitians. If no one will take the West Virginians we can drop them off at Gitmo.
 
mqt said:
Two environmental elements can explain the outcomes every bit as well as a non-environmental one:

First, IQ is a metric that does not necessarily track what some thinks it tracks. While I do believe people differ in their natural ability, IQ relies on a process that I don’t believe isolates that ability from the environmental causes. It also tracks a very specific type of intelligence and test-taking aptitude that does not encompass all that makes someone intelligent. It’s also very much worth noting a lot of the studies cited by those who support arguments based on IQ difference in racial groups were directly funded and conducted by groups that favor eugenics either conceptually or in practice.

Second, we kind of took all the stuff. What exactly is the Hatian government going to do to compete with the United States on the global stage? It might be a true statement that these countries have been third-world countries for a long time, but they can’t very well acquire new natural resources or magically become richer to better serve their citizens. There are certainly steps these countries can take, but both internal and external barriers exist that can derail those efforts. I see no reason to demonize an individual Hatian person for this.
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Maybe the Dems can hire you as a consultant to reach voters like sturg and tap.
 
As for why “we would want that here” I would simply ask you who the “we” is in this case and why I should draw that line based on national borders. It frankly affects me every bit as little if someone in Florida goes hungry as a person in Haiti. Both are thousands of miles from my door, yet I’m supposed to just implicitly accept that I should care more for the plight of the Floridian because the United States didn’t decide to colonize Haiti 200 years ago?
 
mqt said:
Two environmental elements can explain the outcomes every bit as well as a non-environmental one:

First, IQ is a metric that does not necessarily track what some thinks it tracks. While I do believe people differ in their natural ability, IQ relies on a process that I don’t believe isolates that ability from the environmental causes. It also tracks a very specific type of intelligence and test-taking aptitude that does not encompass all that makes someone intelligent. It’s also very much worth noting a lot of the studies cited by those who support arguments based on IQ difference in racial groups were directly funded and conducted by groups that favor eugenics either conceptually or in practice.

Second, we kind of took all the stuff. What exactly is the Hatian government going to do to compete with the United States on the global stage? It might be a true statement that these countries have been third-world countries for a long time, but they can’t very well acquire new natural resources or magically become richer to better serve their citizens. There are certainly steps these countries can take, but both internal and external barriers exist that can derail those efforts. I see no reason to demonize an individual Hatian person for this.
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I dont demonize any individual Hatian person. But I dont think it should be controversial to point out that the country is a sithole, riddled in crime and violence, filled with people unable to make anything better of it, and not a territory im eager to immigrate here
 
mqt said:
As for why “we would want that here” I would simply ask you who the “we” is in this case and why I should draw that line based on national borders. It frankly affects me every bit as little if someone in Florida goes hungry as a person in Haiti. Both are thousands of miles from my door, yet I’m supposed to just implicitly accept that I should care more for the plight of the Floridian because the United States didn’t decide to colonize Haiti 200 years ago?
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small but interesting historical accident...Ulysses S Grant when he was president was keenly interested in annexing Hispaniola
 
mqt said:
I do find it curious that you are seemingly willing to grasp that it’s wrong to vilify West Virginians while gladly doing so for Haitians.
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I didn't vilify West Virginians...i simply accurately described their lack of progress in spite of many generations in this country with all of the opportunities and advantages that come with that
 
sturg33 said:
I'm pointing out that nsacpi is more bigoted than the people he's whining about
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More? From what I can see Nsacpi is implying some people are being hateful dicks, you’re implying some people are criminals that are simply too dumb to be integrated into polite society. I think you’re overplaying your hand here.
 
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