Also, if we’re going to insist upon it being fine to use certain labels because they’re definitionally apt, I’m not actually sure how some of Trump’s actions and rhetoric isn’t pretty explicitly fascist in nature. I don’t think we’re in a crisis here, but his administration does flirt with that ideology, and Miller is a leading voice on that front. Nobody should take that as a sign to do something about it, but if we’re calling out politicians for meeting the textbook definitions of things, Trump and his team are fair game here too.
Second ('Third') Trump Presidency Thread
- Thread starter thethe
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nsacpi
Expects Yuge Games
What is the difference between calling Mamdani a commie and Trump or Stephen Miller a fascist.
Odd that nobody in the left seems to be getting killed or have violent crowds harassing them.
Lol
chop2chip
Well-known member
For example, the then-Democratic governor of California, Edmund Gerland “Pat” Brown, remarked about Goldwater’s acceptance speech, claiming it “had the stench of fascism. All we needed to hear was Heil Hitler.” It should be noted that Goldwater served as a pilot in the military during WWII. Brown didn’t have any military service at all.
“We see dangerous signs of Hitlerism in the Goldwater campaign,” King said.
The then-mayor of San Francisco, the city where the 1964 Republican National Convention was held, said the GOP “had Mein Kampf as their political bible.”
“If [President] Ford’s principle had been the rule in Nuremberg,” he said, “the Nazi leaders would have been let off, and only the people, who carried out their schemes, would have been tried,” the ACLU said at the time
Rep. William Clay (D-MO) stated that Reagan wanted to “replace the Bill of Rights with fascist precepts lifted verbatim from Mein Kampf.”
The Los Angeles Times cartoonist Paul Conrad drew a panel depicting Reagan plotting a fascist putsch in a darkened Munich beer hall. Harry Stein (later a conservative convert) wrote in Esquire that the voters who supported Reagan were comparable to the “good Germans” in “Hitler’s Germany.”
In 2012, Sen. Mitt Romney (R-UT), the same Romney so many Democrats love today, was also linked to Nazis and fascism. One delegate from Kansas (at the time) said Romney was a habitual liar and likened him to Hitler “while criticizing the accuracy of Romney’s campaign talking points.”
A chairman of the California Democratic Party compared then-vice presidential candidate (and eventual former Speaker of the House) Paul Ryan, again, the same Ryan loved by many Democrats today, to Nazi filmmaker and propagandist Joseph Goebbels.
One difference I can see is that Mamdani has never called his political opponents a Commie before:
I think this brings up an excellent point that the overuse of terms like Fascist and Marxist have rendered them essentially meaningless. When you call Mitt Romney a Fascist and Barack Obama a Marxist, you’re left with less ammunition when Stephen Miller and Zohran Mamdani pop up.
Nope - the oncoming Marxist wing of the left did
Yeah, the demonization has always been a key component in our politics. I think the main difference is the reach of those opinions with the growth of social media as an increasingly political environment. Trump just helped move the football down the field because he is incredible at making headlines and using that new environment to his advantage.
That was just poor wording on my part. Yes, the binders full of women thing caught like wildfire. I don’t recall many accusations of fascism on my Facebook feed, though. Nonsensical political scandals like that had always existed and we certainly caught them during campaigns, but now a much larger percentage of the population is drawn in to political rhetoric all the time. Every event is not just news, but also the discourse. Because everything is getting so much attention and people are in echo chambers, every day has a “binders full of women” moment and Donald Trump has capitalized on that new culture.
acesfull86
Well-known member
They should be voted out of office, or have the people appointing them to their government positions voted out of office in favor of people who aren’t fascists. Someone being a fascist is not something that necessitates violence or legal action against that person. Actively doing fascism in the name of fighting fascism is counterproductive. That’s my main problem with the do something crowd on the right. You can and should combat extremism without resorting to it yourself.
acesfull86
Well-known member
Honestly, if I was forced to give Mamdani a label, I’d stick with socialist over communist. I don’t find it difficult to highlight how terrible he is without using the commie label. I will say calling for “seizing the means of production” isn’t great. Growing up with a father who once self described as a communist also isn’t great.
The difference is I probably give Mamdani too much credit for having an actual ideology, while I think Miller and Trump are opportunistic morons. Trump’s switched political allegiances multiple times in his life and would do so again were it advantageous to him.
Did you ever conclude whether real libertarians are allowed to vote against Mamdani, given Trump will surely back his main competitor? Election is just around the corner.
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chop2chip
Well-known member
Or likening Marin County moms to Maoists