Smoltz elected to Cooperstown along with Pedro, Unit, and Biggio.

Edmonds wasn't even close, but as I mentioned, fairly or unfairly, that is who he will be compared to as one of his contemporaries. It would aggravate the crap out of me that the SC Highlights always acted as if every catch Edmonds made was a recreation of May's catch in the 54 WS. Usually he made those catches because he wasn't positioned correctly, or got a bad jump. Andruw was almost always where he needed to be, waiting on the ball. The times he had to go all out he would make it look like expected to make the catch. I can't imagine I will ever see a better CF again in my lifetime.
 
From his age 21 to age 29 seasons, Druw had OPS+ of:

116

114

126

94

127

117

112

136

126

That's damn good alone; great for a CF. His WAR in that time period was 13 higher than the next best CF, Edmonds. The only CFs that were better hitters were Edmonds, Griffey, and Bernie.
 
Knucksie said:
"Very good" typically doesn't get a player in the Hall. Leading in important offensive categories does. Voters typically look for "the best of the best."

Whether you want to believe it or not, plenty of voters are not going to be that much more impressed comparing him with Edmonds.

It was worse. You goofs always carp about the bad contracts, but this proves the selective outrage. He was very much in BJ and Uggla territory.

First of all, why do keep bringing defense up? Ozzie Smith and Bill Mazeroski (Vet's Committee selection) are the only 2 players in, largely for defense, but they both had post season heroics. Maybe Brooks Robinson, too, but he was also effective at the plate.

As far as Murphy goes, and you're not even old enough to have remembered him, and Murphy was one of the most feared hitters in the game. It's rare that a 2-time MVP does not get inducted with Roger Maris and maybe one other.



Lou Brock got in because of the stolen bases. If not for sacrificing his career for challenging the Reserve Clause, for my money, Curt Flood was having a HOF career.
Click to expand...

The only centerfielders that have more homers than Andruw are Mantle Griffey and Mays.

Andruw was the best defensive player in baseball for almost a decade.

I think the writers are opening up to peak totals and peak value for which Andruw had a lot of.

Schilling Pedro Mussina Smoltz and Halladay are going to go to the hall with less than 300 wins.
 
Heywood said:
The only centerfielders that have more homers than Andruw are Mantle Griffey and Mays.

Andruw was the best defensive player in baseball for almost a decade.

I think the writers are opening up to peak totals and peak value for which Andruw had a lot of.

Schilling Pedro Mussina Smoltz and Halladay are going to go to the hall with less than 300 wins.
Click to expand...

Halladay isn't going. Not enough wins.

Moose.... one thing in his favor is he flirted with 300 wins and almost his entire career was right smack in the middle of the steroid era....

I wasn't shocked but wasn't sure if Pedro was gonna get in or not only because of longevity. The last of his good years was pretty much over by his early 30's.... Best of his time though. Especially in the AL.

Schilling. Should probly get in with having over 200 wins and all those clutch October games. What he did in 01 and 04 was incredible
 
Roy Halladay and the HOF is a fascinating discussion.

A true borderline candidate with a tremendous peak, but not much longevity.

Hmmm...
 
Knucksie said:
First of all, why do keep bringing defense up? Ozzie Smith and Bill Mazeroski (Vet's Committee selection) are the only 2 players in, largely for defense, but they both had post season heroics. Maybe Brooks Robinson, too, but he was also effective at the plate.
Click to expand...

People bring up Ozzie because it's a precedent. Ozzie was a world class defender and the best ever at short. Andruw was the same in center. One thing that will help Andruw is people becoming more and more aware of advanced defenisve metrics which correctly put Andruw in a class of his own.
 
Knucksie said:
"Very good" typically doesn't get a player in the Hall. Leading in important offensive categories does. Voters typically look for "the best of the best."

Whether you want to believe it or not, plenty of voters are not going to be that much more impressed comparing him with Edmonds.

It was worse. You goofs always carp about the bad contracts, but this proves the selective outrage. He was very much in BJ and Uggla territory.

First of all, why do keep bringing defense up? Ozzie Smith and Bill Mazeroski (Vet's Committee selection) are the only 2 players in, largely for defense, but they both had post season heroics. Maybe Brooks Robinson, too, but he was also effective at the plate.

As far as Murphy goes, and you're not even old enough to have remembered him, and Murphy was one of the most feared hitters in the game. It's rare that a 2-time MVP does not get inducted with Roger Maris and maybe one other.



Lou Brock got in because of the stolen bases. If not for sacrificing his career for challenging the Reserve Clause, for my money, Curt Flood was having a HOF career.
Click to expand...

id say Druw had some post season heroics.
 
Knucksie said:
"Very good" typically doesn't get a player in the Hall. Leading in important offensive categories does. Voters typically look for "the best of the best."

Whether you want to believe it or not, plenty of voters are not going to be that much more impressed comparing him with Edmonds.

It was worse. You goofs always carp about the bad contracts, but this proves the selective outrage. He was very much in BJ and Uggla territory.

First of all, why do keep bringing defense up? Ozzie Smith and Bill Mazeroski (Vet's Committee selection) are the only 2 players in, largely for defense, but they both had post season heroics. Maybe Brooks Robinson, too, but he was also effective at the plate.

As far as Murphy goes, and you're not even old enough to have remembered him, and Murphy was one of the most feared hitters in the game. It's rare that a 2-time MVP does not get inducted with Roger Maris and maybe one other.



Lou Brock got in because of the stolen bases. If not for sacrificing his career for challenging the Reserve Clause, for my money, Curt Flood was having a HOF career.
Click to expand...

1. Druw was other worldly defensively. Many guys in the hall are the best of the best offensively but sucked defensively, Druw was very good offensively and the best of the best defensively. The issue is it's not as easy to convince 300 people or whatever you need that your defense was better than Willie Mays's when half of them are probably twits anyway.

2. Edmonds wasn't even remotely close to the same solar system as Druw, much less the same planet when it comes to defense.

3. My statment is perfectly acceptable. Murphy his a wall at 32 and fell off the cliff, Druw did it a little different, he bottomed out at 31 then had a somewhat ok bounce back offensively but his defense was gone.

4. Defense should be brought up when an otherworldly player is involved, and Druw had some postseason heroics of his own, on the field and at the dish. And Druw was better at the plate than Robinson.

5. Murphy was great for a handful of years, but even if we pick Murphy's best chance for success over a healthy sample in the 80s, 80-86, he wasn't one of the 10 best hitters in baseball falling behind many other guys who he was a better player than cause of PA, but not really a better hitter. Don't get me wrong, I love me some Murph, hell of a guy to watch old clips of. But you make it seem like he was Miguel Cabrera when he's more Freddie Freeman.

6. So someone caen be great at stealing bases and can get in, but someone can't be an elite defender at a defensive premium position and get in?
 
rico43 said:
Keep in mind that Andruw is still playing, albeit in Japan. Don't think his clock starts ticking until he actually hangs it up./
Click to expand...

Well it starts after his last major league game. Glavine was on the Braves the year after Maddux retired, but never cracked the major league roster which is why he and Maddux were on the same ballot instead of he and Smoltzie being on the same ballot.

That being said, someone may still bring Druw back to the majors. He was still an effective player before leaving.
 
chop2chip said:
Roy Halladay and the HOF is a fascinating discussion.

A true borderline candidate with a tremendous peak, but not much longevity.

Hmmm...
Click to expand...

Halladay is an interesting one. Looking at rWAR he should be in, he's very similar to Don Drysdale. When you look at traditional stats, nothing pops. Cause of being in the AL East in the roid era, 3.39 ERA is pretty danged good. He doesn't have 3000 innings, doesn't have 3000Ks, doesn't even have 2500Ks. But from 2001-2011 there weren't many pitchers with a peak like that. Averaging like 6 rWAR per season.
 
gilesfan said:
From his age 21 to age 29 seasons, Druw had OPS+ of:

116

114

126

94

127

117

112

136

126

That's damn good alone; great for a CF. His WAR in that time period was 13 higher than the next best CF, Edmonds. The only CFs that were better hitters were Edmonds, Griffey, and Bernie.
Click to expand...

Beltran was better some years, worse than some years. But regardless whether u think Beltran was better during that time, he will be a primary comparison as well.
 
thewupk said:
He has the same WAR as Ozzie. Again it's all about perception. Initially people think of Andruw as the guy who flamed out and sturggled mightily after going to LA and not what he did in Atlanta. I don't know if it will be enough with the voters but proper reflection and time away will do Andruw a lot of good. IMO he's the best defensive player of all time. And if you are the best at something you belong in the hall of fame.
Click to expand...

I'd say Druw coming up as early as he did actually hurt his HOF chances. People are going to remember the early flame out instead of remembering the dominance he displayed for most of his career. I would venture to say that had he started his career around age 22-23, put up the exact same statistics, and then flamed out around age 33-34 and retiring at age 38, then he would likely be viewed in a different light.
 
Really happy Smoltz got in. He was my favorite of the Big Three, and he deserved it. I was fortunate enough to see all four members of this year's class play in person over the years.

Did anyone read about the brouhaha with Schilling yesterday, saying he didn't get in because he's a Republican while Smoltz did partly because Schilling thinks he's (secretly?) a Democrat? :facepalm: :happy0157:
http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/mlb-b...otes-because-he-s-a-republican-192514435.html

He claims he was joking but I wonder.
 
zitothebrave said:
5. Murphy was great for a handful of years, but even if we pick Murphy's best chance for success over a healthy sample in the 80s, 80-86, he wasn't one of the 10 best hitters in baseball falling behind many other guys who he was a better player than cause of PA, but not really a better hitter. Don't get me wrong, I love me some Murph, hell of a guy to watch old clips of. But you make it seem like he was Miguel Cabrera when he's more Freddie Freeman.
Click to expand...

You really don't know. Murph was elite in those MVP years. Checking Fangraphs & watching YouTube does no justice. Ask anybody who was around. He was absolutely cruising to a HOF career before the tailspin. The crappy Braves teams of the late 80's didn't help the cause, esp. with Horner getting exiled to Japan.
 
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