SOTU?

57Brave said:
and so we need government aid and scholarships to those that really don't need ?

That stinks of living off of the govt teat

Big difference between a dollar when you make $44K and $250K
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True but people can live off of $44k.



Where does it say that everyone is guaranteed good paying jobs and guaranteed a chance to get college degree?
 
57Brave said:
and so we need government aid and scholarships to those that really don't need ?
That stinks of living off of the govt teat

Big difference between a dollar when you make $44K and $250K
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Who's to determine need? What if a parent regardless of worth doesn't want to pay for a kids education but the kid want it?
 
Gary82 said:
Just because you had to work your ass off to pay for education, everyone else must, too? **** that logic.
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Hey lazy ass why should I pay for your higher education? Work for it like everyone else.

Do you realize, the rich doesn't need the 529, the middle-class do. We already pay for your welfare, the rich don't. Do you want us to lower our standards to meet yours? Are you jealous? Work for your schit, don't make me pay for it.
 
Here's my take. I'm fine with say a government scholarship where you can go to an instate public school, for a position of need, up to a bachelors if you maintain say a 3.5 GPA or better you do it for free. If you fall below that, your scholarship is rescinded on any class you dont' have an A in.
 
zitothebrave said:
Here's my take. I'm fine with say a government scholarship where you can go to an instate public school, for a position of need, up to a bachelors if you maintain say a 3.5 GPA or better you do it for free. If you fall below that, your scholarship is rescinded on any class you dont' have an A in.
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I'm good with that. Need to still have some sense of motivation involved. Something free all by itself does not do that.
 
AerchAngel said:
Hey lazy ass why should I pay for your higher education? Work for it like everyone else.

Do you realize, the rich doesn't need the 529, the middle-class do. We already pay for your welfare, the rich don't. Do you want us to lower our standards to meet yours? Are you jealous? Work for your schit, don't make me pay for it.
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Yup...rich use 529 programs as tax shelters. It's an investment vehicle for them.
 
57Brave said:
and that is decided by family income ??

It seems some have a choice to make.

Either people are supposed to have better jobs to get off welfare or we as a society have no infra structure in place to aid people in getting better jobs to stay off welfare.

As to AA's comments. Suppose there was a program in place to help you get to where you are without having to walk uphill both ways to school --- .

In affect what we are arguing is whether to provide school buses or leaving ( those that don't have parents with cars to drive them ) the rest to walk.

You want a level playing field .... but you dont
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I see a lot of poor people kids going to school. They take out loans, work at night, do the things necessary to get it done. It means more to those people that they overcame their financial situation to make something of themselves. On the other hand, I will go to school on AA's dime, get C's and then sit on my ass when I get out until I get something I like while on welfare off of AA's dime.

That is what you are teaching Numbnuts.
 
57Brave said:
and that is decided by family income ??

It seems some have a choice to make.

Either people are supposed to have better jobs to get off welfare or we as a society have no infra structure in place to aid people in getting better jobs to stay off welfare.

As to AA's comments. Suppose there was a program in place to help you get to where you are without having to walk uphill both ways to school --- .

In affect what we are arguing is whether to provide school buses or leaving ( those that don't have parents with cars to drive them ) the rest to walk.

You want a level playing field .... but you dont
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Do you think this is absolutely true?
 
thethe said:
I'm good with that. Need to still have some sense of motivation involved. Something free all by itself does not do that.
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Well that's where losing the scholarship comes into play. Using money like that I'm fine with the government doing. I'm fine with them incentivising private citizens to work towards the communal good. Let people if they want a job that pays well, go to school for physical or occupational therapy, or teacher, or RN, etc. have it be for jobs we need so people are moving into that field. You can throw other stipulations into it if you want.
 
zitothebrave said:
Well that's where losing the scholarship comes into play. Using money like that I'm fine with the government doing. I'm fine with them incentivising private citizens to work towards the communal good. Let people if they want a job that pays well, go to school for physical or occupational therapy, or teacher, or RN, etc. have it be for jobs we need so people are moving into that field. You can throw other stipulations into it if you want.
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I'm agreeing with you. I like your system. Just like people on welfare should have to take drug tests and prove they are spending the money wisely.
 
zitothebrave said:
jWell that's where losing the scholarship comes into play. Using money like that I'm fine with the government doing. I'm fine with them incentivising private citizens to work towards the communal good. Let people if they want a job that pays well, go to school for physical or occupational therapy, or teacher, or RN, etc. have it be for jobs we need so people are moving into that field. You can throw other stipulations into it if you want.
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And where will all this money come from? Why can't students take out loans like every other generation did?
 
thethe said:
I'm agreeing with you. I like your system. Just like people on welfare should have to take drug tests and prove they are spending the money wisely.
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No that's a massive sinkhole of money. I'd rather incentivise people off welfare by keeping it humane but less desirable.
 
thethe said:
I'm agreeing with you. I like your system. Just like people on welfare should have to take drug tests and prove they are spending the money wisely.
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I don't agree with drug testing - that is not cost-effective. What I would agree is a manadatory 20 hours per week of community service while on welfare. This would do two things:

1) Incent people to get off welfare faster - because they're already working

2) Give the tax-payer a little bit of ROI
 
Krgrecw said:
And where will all this money come from? Why can't students take out loans like every other generation did?
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You do realize the biggest economic boom we experienced as a nation aside from the dotcom boom was post WWII. When we as a country paid a **** ton of money to get GIs to school, who then had better jobs which lead to many more better things. My proposal is for the government to incentivise students to go into fields that will benefit america down the line. If I had a seeing eye into the future I would have gone to school to be a speech pathologist or ocupational therapist or any number of jobs that now we have a massive need for but no one to work, because the population is aging.
 
sturg33 said:
I don't agree with drug testing - that is not cost-effective. What I would agree is a manadatory 20 hours per week of community service while on welfare. This would do two things:

1) Incent people to get off welfare faster - because they're already working

2) Give the tax-payer a little bit of ROI
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Fair enough....I just believe that if people are getting high allday it's less likely they will get out of their funk. But your plan seems better so I'd get behind it
 
Krgrecw said:
And where will all this money come from? Why can't students take out loans like every other generation did?
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As lono as there are strict mandates on performance I think we will all see the benefits of more kids going to school but you better work your ass off. More jobs equals more tax revenue which eventually could lead to lower taxes.
 
thethe said:
Fair enough....I just believe that if people are getting high allday it's lessentially likely they will get out of their funk. But your plan seems better so I'd get behind it
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Most people I know who get high all day have jobs. Drug dealers don't take foodstamps.

http://time.com/3117361/welfare-recipients-drug-testing/

Read that if you want info on drug testing and welfare. The welfare issue is really small. I'd rather get out of corporate welfare before even looking at social.
 
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