Still a lot left to do

I don't think the Cubs would have ever given up Soler, Baez, and Jimenez in the same deal, especially for Teheran and Inciarte.
 
smootness said:
I don't think the Cubs would have ever given up Soler, Baez, and Jimenez in the same deal, especially for Teheran and Inciarte.
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Before Fowler fell in there lap? I think it was possible.

After? Not possible.

After 2016 from a Cubs POV? Possible, depending on what happens with Fowler for a potential smaller deal for Inciarte. Before 2016, their pitching was suspect behind Arrieta and Lester. They expected Lackey to be ok or they wouldn't have signed him. I can't believe that they expected to get what they are getting out of both Hendricks and Hammel.

After 2016 from a Braves POV? Unlikely since the Braves FO have essentially handcuffed themselves from that type of deal by promising a competitive team in 2017. They might trade Inciarte because they could justify that by claiming Mallex as essentially the same player. But with the limited options in SP, I can't see any way they can trade Teheran and still claim to be trying to compete. If anything, they have to ADD SP.
 
Not sure how to react to a resurrected dead thread with comments like:

"Trade Inciate!"

"Sign JUp!"
 
I really still wouldn't be surprised if Inciarte is traded. He's our best trade chip that we could replace with a similar player internally.
 
Horsehide Harry said:
I think you vastly over-rate JT's value, even with the good contract.

A question? What do YOU think the Braves should/could get for JT?
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The starting pitching market is extremely barren. A guy like Julio holds a ton of value. Nevertheless, Baez and Soler simply aren't that great of players (particularly Soler). It's a poor deal any way you slice it.

Furthermore, if we're trading Julio, then we are pushing our competing window back further, making both Soler and Baez rather useless t this team for at least 2 seasons. It just doesn't make sense to trade Julio unless your getting back a massive return.
 
Horsehide Harry said:
I think you vastly over-rate JT's value, even with the good contract.

A question? What do YOU think the Braves should/could get for JT?
Click to expand...

Geez, a lot, Horse. A klick or two below a top starter. K/9 went up. FIP excellent. Excellent control. Tough dude. Extremely durable. It's clear he pitched through an injury in '15.

You could make the argument that a top young controllable pitcher ought to get back a top young controllable hitter and that maybes like Baez and Soler aren't enough.

I'm serious. He's almost great, cheap, young, durable. The correct answer is probably "don't trade him."
 
Oklahomabrave said:
I really still wouldn't be surprised if Inciarte is traded. He's our best trade chip that we could replace with a similar player internally.
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This is possibly true, though my strong preference is to keep him.

Isn't it time for us to start selling extremely high-end low-minors lottery tickets in exchange for high end guys who are close to ready?
 
GovClintonTyree said:
This is possibly true, though my strong preference is to keep him.

Isn't it time for us to start selling extremely high-end low-minors lottery tickets in exchange for high end guys who are close to ready?
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Not really. We didn't build all this talent in the minors so we could sell it. We built it so that it can sustain the major league team for a long time.
 
smootness said:
Not really. We didn't build all this talent in the minors so we could sell it. We built it so that it can sustain the major league team for a long time.
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Some of both, I think. This is where you decide there are 3-4 of the 12 that you don't want to move.
 
GovClintonTyree said:
This is possibly true, though my strong preference is to keep him.

Isn't it time for us to start selling extremely high-end low-minors lottery tickets in exchange for high end guys who are close to ready?
Click to expand...

I don't think we trade any high end guys unless they are at probable maximum value. The only guy I think fits that category is Soroka. I like him a lot, but he's probably never going to be dominant and he'll be hitting around the same time as a lot of other pitching prospects.

I do think we can explore trading guys who have had great seasons like Povse and Weigel. Those two are the most likely, IMO.
 
Chico said:
I don't think we trade any high end guys unless they are at probable maximum value. The only guy I think fits that category is Soroka. I like him a lot, but he's probably never going to be dominant and he'll be hitting around the same time as a lot of other pitching prospects.

I do think we can explore trading guys who have had great seasons like Povse and Weigel. Those two are the most likely, IMO.
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I agree with all the above.
 
Chico said:
I don't think we trade any high end guys unless they are at probable maximum value. The only guy I think fits that category is Soroka. I like him a lot, but he's probably never going to be dominant and he'll be hitting around the same time as a lot of other pitching prospects.

I do think we can explore trading guys who have had great seasons like Povse and Weigel. Those two are the most likely, IMO.
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Soroka most certainly has the stuff to be dominant. Some of the best stuff in the system.
 
GovClintonTyree said:
Some of both, I think. This is where you decide there are 3-4 of the 12 that you don't want to move.
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But the primary advantage of having so many talented guys, especially pitchers, is that you have a very good chance of enough of them hitting. It's still too early to determine which of these prospects is going to make it, so I think it's still way too early to start making those determinations. I feel confident we can put together a decent team next year, I don't think we're in desperation mode to compete. So just stay the course, allow your young guys to develop more, and sit back and see which ones emerge.

If you trade enough of them, the odds no longer work in your favor, and if you let go of the wrong ones, you've compromised the rebuild.
 
Chico said:
I would trade Soroka before I'd trade Allard, Anderson, Wentz, or Muller.
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Soroka likely has around if not a higher ceiling than Wentz or Muller with his stuff. Yes they were impressive, but Soroka was doing it at a higher level at a young age.
 
Oklahomabrave said:
I really still wouldn't be surprised if Inciarte is traded. He's our best trade chip that we could replace with a similar player internally.
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Why is it that a when player's "value" is supposedly highest, so the default is "trade him"? Inciarte might be even better. Even so, we don't know his full value to this club, especially when they start to get really good.

The last 3 years, it's like a forum obsession to just trade, trade, trade...without any concept about building a contending club around specific assets. Inciarte is really good. You don't trade him, simply for that reason. That is, unless somebody comes in and makes an offer that can't be refused. If you had to identify internal options, Mallex Smith hasn't shown that he's better yet.

Keep both Inciarte and Mallex Smith. Trade Markakis for whatever.
 
Knucksie said:
Why is it that a when player's "value" is supposedly highest, so the default is "trade him"? Inciarte might be even better. Even so, we don't know his full value to this club, especially when they start to get really good.

The last 3 years, it's like a forum obsession to just trade, trade, trade...without any concept about building a contending club around specific assets. Inciarte is really good. You don't trade him, simply for that reason. That is, unless somebody comes in and makes an offer that can't be refused. If you had to identify internal options, Mallex Smith hasn't shown that he's better yet.

Keep both Inciarte and Mallex Smith. Trade Markakis for whatever.
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I agree. 100%.
 
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