Swanson getting the call...
- Thread starter blueagleace1
- Start date
Julio3000
<B>A Chip Off the Old Rock</B>
Andruw was, IIRC, coming off two MiLB Player of the Year seasons. Chipper was ready out of the box.
More to the point, I think the question is less if he's being rushed than if it's wise to start his clock—before, per Hart, he's ready—before we're further on the rebuilding curve. It's hard to find an analog for that among position players in recent memory.
Julio3000
<B>A Chip Off the Old Rock</B>
Isn't that exactly what you're doing? When was the last time you SAW him play?
sturg33
I
Andruw, Chipper, et all were also leaned upon to help us win... because, you know, we were trying to win then
What I see is:
- A player who is struggling in the minor being called up
- A player who is looked upon as a future significant contributor having his clock getting started early
- A player who, no matter how well or poorly he performs, will get us no closer to the playoffs than we already are
Horsehide Harry
<B>Mr. Free Trade</B>
The biggest problem I have with what's been happening recently, the Kemp deal, bringing Swanson up early when even Hart says he isn't ready only makes sense if you assume the team is prepared to compete next year. And that scares me more than anything. It tells me that the FO is either A) delusional or B) so concerned with presenting an appearance as opposed to a reality that they are willing to abandon good baseball and business management practices without regard to near future impact.
This is a BAD, BAD baseball team. They are just tapering off a huge hot streak and are still 3-4 games behind every other team in baseball. And that is with both Freeman and Teheran having career years. Next year Kemp and Markakis will be a year older. Unless they spend the offseason taking frequent dips into the HGH fountain of youth they aren't going to get magically better. The near term young pitching hasn't come close to developing. Wisler has regressed. Blair got stomped into submission when he was rushed. Folty has show intermittent promise but in reality the results say he isn't anywhere advanced from where he was last year. Perez and Banuelos are injured and likely gone. Whelan and Gant have mostly shown they aren't even part of the question much less answer.
The idea of trading for difference makers is either laughable or insane - laughable to believe that the FO would spend so much time and effort to collect young talent only to ship it out in waves to acquire someone else's cast-off or insane that the FO might consider doing it.
Then you come to the FA market where the best of the best isn't even that great, will come at a premium and will likely bring bags and bags of buyers remorse - Desmond outside of Texas, is he the guy from this year or the guiy Washington didn't want?
This is a BAD, BAD baseball team. They are just tapering off a huge hot streak and are still 3-4 games behind every other team in baseball. And that is with both Freeman and Teheran having career years. Next year Kemp and Markakis will be a year older. Unless they spend the offseason taking frequent dips into the HGH fountain of youth they aren't going to get magically better. The near term young pitching hasn't come close to developing. Wisler has regressed. Blair got stomped into submission when he was rushed. Folty has show intermittent promise but in reality the results say he isn't anywhere advanced from where he was last year. Perez and Banuelos are injured and likely gone. Whelan and Gant have mostly shown they aren't even part of the question much less answer.
The idea of trading for difference makers is either laughable or insane - laughable to believe that the FO would spend so much time and effort to collect young talent only to ship it out in waves to acquire someone else's cast-off or insane that the FO might consider doing it.
Then you come to the FA market where the best of the best isn't even that great, will come at a premium and will likely bring bags and bags of buyers remorse - Desmond outside of Texas, is he the guy from this year or the guiy Washington didn't want?
Julio3000
<B>A Chip Off the Old Rock</B>
Yeah. I just don't think we can look to OUR history to try to justify this. That isn't to say that it's not justify-able, but that a perennial pennant contender plugging holes with young talent =/= a basement club promoting a young talent who's clearly still finding his legs in pro ball.
The futures game? Not sure what it has to do with anything though, like I said, this discussion has zero to do with scouting. Even our FO guys are making quotes saying they don't necessarily think he's ready, so they clearly don't have some magical scouting insight telling them something we don't see. The move makes zero sense because A. Swanson hasn't proven he's ready and B. having him up this year and the first part of next year isn't getting us to the playoffs in either year, so it's fairly pointless and risking a potential negative (hurting Swanson's development) for no real gain. As has been discussed by others in this thread, this is a very unusual move by baseball standards, struggling prospects in AA don't typically jump to the majors, and when they do it's typically on contending teams.
The only "funny" thing about this is that you don't see the post that "I have a hunch sturg33 will be talking about how idiotic this move is" because it goes without saying.
Really no need to "defend" anything here - they think he's close enough to "ready" to give him a trial run. Until somebody hires you, I'm more than happy to defer to them instead, sorry.
VirginiaBrave
Well-known member
I can't reply to every single post but to all the negative posters, why don't you let the winter play out before making pronouncements about '17 and beyond. There are not just free agents out there but trades could be made as well. We are probably looking at 1/3 roster turnover or better.
The only funny thing really is you talking out of your butt about Glavine/Smoltz/Chipper/Andruw. None of them had to "take their lumps". Smoltz, Glavine, and Chipper all spent full seasons performing at an elite level in AAA before getting called to the majors, Andruw smoked every level of the minors before getting called up. Furcal didn't struggle in the minors before getting called up either, even though he got grabbed after high A. But that was a team in the middle of a playoff chase desperate for a SS, and Furcal had performed well in spring training.
Swanson getting called up has no relation to any of those players.
VirginiaBrave
Well-known member
That's only a half true. Yes they had full AAA seasons, but Smoltz and Glav took their lumps on bad teams from '88-90.
Yes, but they had already proven all they could in the minors, which is in no way similar to Swanson. I wasn't really talking about their performance in the majors there. It's one thing to take your lumps when you have already developed all you can in the minors like Smoltz and Glavine did, but it's another thing to take your lumps in the majors when you haven't even been able to take your lumps in the minors and get over them like Swanson is being asked to do.
I think it's now beyond clear that they were planning on giving the keys to SS to Swanson from opening day next year. If that is a given, I see no problem with bringing him up now. He supposedly has 80 grade makeup, so I seriously doubt anything that could happen to him at the MLB level will hinder his development.
The argument should be whether or not he should have been counted on to start the year at SS next year.
If keeping him down for 2-3 weeks in 2017 gains an extra year of control then it was quite obviously a terribly shortsighted move done explicitly to sell tickets. In that scenario it is a truly indefensible move.
However, if the new CBA makes it so players need to be kept down in the minors for 3+ months to gain the extra year, suddenly this early promotion makes very little difference. There was likely zero chance the Braves would have kept Swanson at AAA for half the season anyways, so calling him up now loses the team no years of control.
I wouldn't be surprised if JS was privy to some info that strongly suggests the CBA will dramatically change the service time rules, and that inside knowledge was partly behind Swanson's promotion.
The argument should be whether or not he should have been counted on to start the year at SS next year.
If keeping him down for 2-3 weeks in 2017 gains an extra year of control then it was quite obviously a terribly shortsighted move done explicitly to sell tickets. In that scenario it is a truly indefensible move.
However, if the new CBA makes it so players need to be kept down in the minors for 3+ months to gain the extra year, suddenly this early promotion makes very little difference. There was likely zero chance the Braves would have kept Swanson at AAA for half the season anyways, so calling him up now loses the team no years of control.
I wouldn't be surprised if JS was privy to some info that strongly suggests the CBA will dramatically change the service time rules, and that inside knowledge was partly behind Swanson's promotion.
Good point here. If the CBA changes in a major way there then this discussion is completely moot. No way we are keeping Swanson down until July/August next year. Time will tell on that I guess.
chipchildress
Awaiting a Promotion
i have no issue with him getting the call. might as well see sooner rather than later if he's the real deal. if he is, he'll get paid down the line regardless. probably extended in a couple of years for a billion dollars and that'll be that.
Couldn't agree more, can't wait to see him..Kinda glad Albies didn't get the call first since imo he will be the better player over their careers and his clock won't be started but I'm hoping Swanson exceeds my expectations.
VirginiaBrave
Well-known member
Well if all goes according to plan five years from now we should be in a position to keep him if he pans out. It might be a smart way of making sure they don't hit free agency at the same time with the two phenoms.