Don't worry. Your army of illegals voting will correct all of this.
The 2018 Midterms
- Thread starter Runnin
- Start date
Don't worry. Your army of illegals voting will correct all of this.
Julio3000
<B>A Chip Off the Old Rock</B>
This has come up here and there across multiple threads, but the fact remains...
Partisan gerrymandering is an unassailable political reality. Recent court cases have underscored both that fact and the fact that state Repubican parties in NC and WI have illegally plotted to make state rules with the express purpose of suppressing minority votes.
On the other hand, you've pointed to testimony in a PA case that 100,000 people may have illegally registered to vote over two plus decades as proof that there is a widespread conspiracy along those lines...so let's just measure results. I can bring actual evidence to the table of widespread and organized voter suppression. Can you actually prove, with evidence, widespread and organized illegal voting? Or is this something else that we're just supposed to "know" is happening?
Partisan gerrymandering is an unassailable political reality. Recent court cases have underscored both that fact and the fact that state Repubican parties in NC and WI have illegally plotted to make state rules with the express purpose of suppressing minority votes.
On the other hand, you've pointed to testimony in a PA case that 100,000 people may have illegally registered to vote over two plus decades as proof that there is a widespread conspiracy along those lines...so let's just measure results. I can bring actual evidence to the table of widespread and organized voter suppression. Can you actually prove, with evidence, widespread and organized illegal voting? Or is this something else that we're just supposed to "know" is happening?
Initially it was a joke. Then the 'glitch ' was identified in the dmv records. Then it was oh we have over 100k illegals registered. What will it be tomorrow?
So yes, this is something I've "known" for a while and like the dossier reliance I will be proven right in the long run.
I'm sure something will pop up in the future. Some other anomaly or glitch.
Jaw
It's OVER 5,000!
You have proven in the past that you are willing to be rational and use logic even when it subverts those on the same side of the ideological aisle as yourself, so I ask you this in good faith.
Do you believe that California polling stations are actively working to turn away registered non citizens from voting?
It is an indisputable fact that California motor voter law provides an avenue to allow non citizens to register. The problem in Pennsylvania is similar. At least in California, denying even non citizens the opportunity to vote seems antithetical to the inclusionist beliefs of the state. If your answer to my question is no, it would seem you agree with thethe (and myself) that non citizen voting fraud is occurring on an immeasurable (we can't get the data to prove it because we don't have the data to prove it), but possibly electorally significant, scale.
What’s the big deal with proven that you are a citizen before you vote? We have to prove who we are in all facets of life.
Julio3000
<B>A Chip Off the Old Rock</B>
My answer is that I don't know, but I have no problem with wanting to understand how pervasive the issue is, no objection to good-faith efforts to do so, and no problem with patching holes in the system, as long as said remedies are not unduly burdensome to citizens. I assume that a poll worker presented with a valid voter registration has no further duty to explore the legitimacy of that registration, absent any obvious evidence to the contrary. If there's an administrative problem, that's outside the purview of the poll worker, even if it that is a legitimate issue in need of address.
Julio3000
<B>A Chip Off the Old Rock</B>
Why is the census the proper vehicle for doing so?
Why is the tracking of the population vehicle the proper method for determining the legal status of the people within the country? Is that a serious question?
Julio3000
<B>A Chip Off the Old Rock</B>
I'm just not sure how the decennial census is the most efficient vehicle for parsing voter data.
57Brave
Well-known member
stuart stevens
@stuartpstevens
51m51 minutes ago
stuart stevens Retweeted CNN
Voting fraud is a felony. Half of legal voters don’t bother to vote.
The idea that someone who is illegal would be so dedicated to idea of
voting that he/she will commit a felony is an odd fantasy.
Of all the felonies one might commit, someone is going to risk all to vote?
@stuartpstevens
51m51 minutes ago
stuart stevens Retweeted CNN
Voting fraud is a felony. Half of legal voters don’t bother to vote.
The idea that someone who is illegal would be so dedicated to idea of
voting that he/she will commit a felony is an odd fantasy.
Of all the felonies one might commit, someone is going to risk all to vote?
Julio3000
<B>A Chip Off the Old Rock</B>
It's a reasonable point. The whole premise of massive undocumented voter fraud is predicated on the idea that people, in huge numbers, are willing to knowingly commit multiple felonies that would prevent them from achieving legal status. It's not outside the realm of possibility, but it's a big ask.
Certainly it seems that it happens, but not with the intent and organization that's been suggested. I'm just interested in some clarity, here. Because it's proven that planned and institutionalized voter suppression happens. I'd just like to prove that this kind of planned and organized voter fraud happens before we get too far into remediating the "problem" or assuming too much about its prevalence.
Certainly it seems that it happens, but not with the intent and organization that's been suggested. I'm just interested in some clarity, here. Because it's proven that planned and institutionalized voter suppression happens. I'd just like to prove that this kind of planned and organized voter fraud happens before we get too far into remediating the "problem" or assuming too much about its prevalence.
Julio3000
<B>A Chip Off the Old Rock</B>
But it is a felony. It's federal law. What I'm asking you to show is some malevolent plot...which may well exist, but certainly hasn't been proven. In contrast to multiple examples of organized statewide conspiracies to disenfranchise certain voters.
It's a felony by the letter of the law but in reality it's not because it never gets enforced. Thats the point.
What is to stop illegals from voting currently?
Julio3000
<B>A Chip Off the Old Rock</B>
I will keep an open mind about the possibility of what you're suggesting, albeit absent any evidence of intentionality or even anything approaching hard numbers. The Pennsylvania case that you keep citing is very much in dispute. The official upon whose testimony your 100,000 number is based acknowledged that the number might be much lower. A similar case in Florida began with a number of 180K, which was reduced upon research to 2600, which was eventually reduced to 198. So I think it's worth giving that one some time.
Meanwhile, I'll point you back to the real and documented cases of legislators sitting around crunching data on how to most efficiently suppress legal votes, using race as a basis.
As to what stops the undocumented from voting currently...man. Would it surprise you to learn that most states don't allow the undocumented to get drivers' licenses? That they require a SSN in order to register?
You're making noise about large-scale intentional fraud, without seeming to have much of a handle on what that would entail.
Meanwhile, I'll point you back to the real and documented cases of legislators sitting around crunching data on how to most efficiently suppress legal votes, using race as a basis.
As to what stops the undocumented from voting currently...man. Would it surprise you to learn that most states don't allow the undocumented to get drivers' licenses? That they require a SSN in order to register?
You're making noise about large-scale intentional fraud, without seeming to have much of a handle on what that would entail.
I'm not saying it happens in every state. I'm saying it's significant enough where elections at both the executive and legislative level are impactded.
People are in an uproar over the citizenship question on the census because we have congressional over representation in democratic strongholds. The blurring of the lines between legal and illegal's have absolutely impacted political decisions. That's going to stop.
People are in an uproar over the citizenship question on the census because we have congressional over representation in democratic strongholds. The blurring of the lines between legal and illegal's have absolutely impacted political decisions. That's going to stop.