The Biden Presidency
- Thread starter The Tariff King
- Start date
nsacpi
Expects Yuge Games
Fort Sumter?
striker42
Well-known member
nsacpi, the real question is whether a state can leave unilaterally. If it can, once it leaves the Constitution no longer applies. If a state can leave then once it's out it cannot revolt against the federal government because its no longer associated with it. Similarly, it can enter into any confederation it wants.
If a state can't unilaterally leave then attempting to do so would be an insurrection.
So the issue is whether a state can leave the union unilaterally.
States were said to have retained their sovereignty when they joined the union. State sovereignty is actually why you can be convicted by the Federal Government and the state for the same act.
If a state is sovereign, it should have the power to leave the union unilaterally. However, when this was attempted it was put down at the point of a bayonet.
The states are no longer truly sovereign which is one reason I disagree with the dual convictions.
States are conquered and subjugated former sovereign entities.
If a state can't unilaterally leave then attempting to do so would be an insurrection.
So the issue is whether a state can leave the union unilaterally.
States were said to have retained their sovereignty when they joined the union. State sovereignty is actually why you can be convicted by the Federal Government and the state for the same act.
If a state is sovereign, it should have the power to leave the union unilaterally. However, when this was attempted it was put down at the point of a bayonet.
The states are no longer truly sovereign which is one reason I disagree with the dual convictions.
States are conquered and subjugated former sovereign entities.
nsacpi
Expects Yuge Games
The Constitution is silent on these matters. Good manners and common sense (I know it is controversial to appeal to those things) suggest you don't exit a complicated political arrangement unilaterally. But they tried. The fact that they tried doesn't make it legitimate. As Scalia put it, the matter was adjudicated via a civil war.
Btw, quite a few of the founding fathers understood very well that they were creating a powerful federal government. Washington. Madison. Jay. Hamilton. The two Morrises. There was not much ambiguity in their minds about what the adoption of the Constitution accomplished. The fact that some of their dim-witted colleagues did not catch on does not change it.
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nsacpi
Expects Yuge Games
There is a wonderful book titled The Quartet that lays out how Washington, Jay, Hamilton and Madison out-witted those who preferred a weaker (or non-existent) federal government:
"Indeed, the majority vote on the core plank of the Virginia Plan was really another coup of sorts, since only seven states were present for the vote - none of the New England states had yet arrived - and based on subsequent voting patterns of the absent delegations, it seems unlikely that the Morris resolution would have garnered a majority if all the delegates had been in attendance. For that matter, there was never a moment during the entire summer when all fifty-five delegates were present. Given our sense that this was almost assuredly the most consequential conclave in American history, it strains credibility to realize that the Constitutional Convention was an ever-shifting, highly transitory body of men with different degrees of commitment to the enterprise. One of the intangible advantages that nationalists enjoyed in this swirling context was that, thanks largely to Madison, they were better organized and - though this is impossible to prove - more invested in the outcome."
The goal of the nationalist faction was to create a nation. By implication, this means the states were no longer nations. Under the articles of confederation, yes they were still sovereign states. But the whole point of the nation-building exercise of Washington, Madison, etc, was to replace this unsatisfactory arrangement by creating a nation (singular). And the civil war provided a second ratification for the benefit of those who did not fully understand this.
"Indeed, the majority vote on the core plank of the Virginia Plan was really another coup of sorts, since only seven states were present for the vote - none of the New England states had yet arrived - and based on subsequent voting patterns of the absent delegations, it seems unlikely that the Morris resolution would have garnered a majority if all the delegates had been in attendance. For that matter, there was never a moment during the entire summer when all fifty-five delegates were present. Given our sense that this was almost assuredly the most consequential conclave in American history, it strains credibility to realize that the Constitutional Convention was an ever-shifting, highly transitory body of men with different degrees of commitment to the enterprise. One of the intangible advantages that nationalists enjoyed in this swirling context was that, thanks largely to Madison, they were better organized and - though this is impossible to prove - more invested in the outcome."
The goal of the nationalist faction was to create a nation. By implication, this means the states were no longer nations. Under the articles of confederation, yes they were still sovereign states. But the whole point of the nation-building exercise of Washington, Madison, etc, was to replace this unsatisfactory arrangement by creating a nation (singular). And the civil war provided a second ratification for the benefit of those who did not fully understand this.
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Jaw
It's OVER 5,000!
The fact that it's controversial proves just how far the wokeness rot has spread. I mean, how dare a CEO tell employees not to discuss divisive issues instead of working, at work, on company messaging platforms. It's lunacy. I work at a tech company roughly the same size, far more dominant in our market than Basecamp, and no one would be stupid enough to start such a conversation.
cajunrevenge
Well-known member
Is it controversial? I Dont see what the big deal is.
The old GOP was lead with losers like Romney who would be apologizing for being white daily. We now have fighters that realize the left is pushing communism. Country to going to swing back to the right heavily.
Julio3000
<B>A Chip Off the Old Rock</B>
I swear to god I don’t really want to post on this side of the forum at all. It’s just a drag on my mental health.
But, for Christ, trying to make Joe Biden a communist? Even trying to suggest that a mild push and half-assed effort towards a tiny slice of social democracy as it exists everywhere else in the developed world somehow = ascendant leftism is just utterly disconnected from reality. Just ****ing stop.
I don’t think I’ll live to see an actual left ascendant in this country. I don’t think it’s possible. What you’re flipping out about is the barely conscious left edge of the center-right consensus deciding that enough is enough. Like, saying that a tax regime from a center-right consensus is ok. Like, saying that social program from what would be center-right governments in any other country would be ok. That’s just how ****ed up we are in this country. But, please, for the sake of aesthetics if nothing else...there is not power base on the left. The left is sadly powerless and effectively impotent. What you’re seeing now is the same neoliberal center-right consensus admitting that they ****ed up and veered too far in the direction of capital and want to claw back some concessions. It ain’t the left. It sure as hell ain’t communism. It’s just a ****ing course correction.
But, for Christ, trying to make Joe Biden a communist? Even trying to suggest that a mild push and half-assed effort towards a tiny slice of social democracy as it exists everywhere else in the developed world somehow = ascendant leftism is just utterly disconnected from reality. Just ****ing stop.
I don’t think I’ll live to see an actual left ascendant in this country. I don’t think it’s possible. What you’re flipping out about is the barely conscious left edge of the center-right consensus deciding that enough is enough. Like, saying that a tax regime from a center-right consensus is ok. Like, saying that social program from what would be center-right governments in any other country would be ok. That’s just how ****ed up we are in this country. But, please, for the sake of aesthetics if nothing else...there is not power base on the left. The left is sadly powerless and effectively impotent. What you’re seeing now is the same neoliberal center-right consensus admitting that they ****ed up and veered too far in the direction of capital and want to claw back some concessions. It ain’t the left. It sure as hell ain’t communism. It’s just a ****ing course correction.
Cultural Marxism has been pushed heavily now for well over a decade. The left has injected poison into the country and like any healthy body it’s working to dispose of the fifth.
It’s also amusing to say Biden is anything. He’s been a shill for corporate interests his entire life. Delaware is the epicenter of corporate overreach as this is where most incorporate. At this point he’s an empty vessel that is being coopted so that Obama can have his third term and complete the teachings of his mentors.
This is a vile administration that has nothing but hatred for this country. 2022 can’t come soon enough.
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Runnin
Well-known member
That's why it's working so hard to save lives and help people economically - because it hates the country.
It’s doing neither.
Jaw
It's OVER 5,000!
It's the huge topic in tech circles right now. One needs hip waders to get through the tech bro outrage.
striker42
Well-known member
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...exceeded-progressive-expectations/7366881002/
Biden's career has been more moderate but as a President he seems to have taken a turn to the left. Calling him a communist is a bit of a stretch but he's not a moderate. He's solidly left. Even the far left has been surprised with how liberal Biden's policies have been.
Biden's career has been more moderate but as a President he seems to have taken a turn to the left. Calling him a communist is a bit of a stretch but he's not a moderate. He's solidly left. Even the far left has been surprised with how liberal Biden's policies have been.