The Biden Presidency
- Thread starter The Tariff King
- Start date
sturg33
I
I see julios predictable descent into brainless lefty is complete.
BRB gotta go read through Bidens latest multi trillion spending proposal
McCann'sCans
Gwinnett Bound
Isn't this the playbook the other way as well? Liberals are out to get you. Immigrants are stealing your jobs. Vaccines are unsafe and could kill you. They are out to get your guns. Antifa is destroying your town. The left wants to murder babies. If you don't agree, you're part of the woke mob. But the saviors are Republican politicians. "I alone can fix it." - Donald Trump. Just curious what you see as the difference?
Jaw
It's OVER 5,000!
Welcome.
If you aren't part of a minority group (except Asian!) progressives are out to get you.
I haven't seen the immigrants stealing jobs bit from the right in a while.
Anti vaxxers are a group unto themselves that transcends party lines.
Candidate Biden specifically stated he wanted to confiscate some guns. Any reasonably honest person admits that gun rights restrictions are an important part of the Lefts agenda.
Antifa has been destroying Portland off and on for months. The peaceful BLM protests left an impressive pile of rubble and ashes across the nation as well.
Before becoming a US Senator, Dem presidential nominee or President, Barack Obama voted against the Born Alive Infant Protection Act. It wasn't a controversial stance on his side of the aisle.
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McCann'sCans
Gwinnett Bound
So what I'm hearing is that you think the primary difference is that these 'attacks on the left' are true whereas 'attacks on the right' (things like climate change is a problem, voter suppression is real, healthcare is a right, etc.) are based on a false premise? Which then makes fear-mongering by republican politicians justified vs. fear-mongering from democratic politicians.
Jaw
It's OVER 5,000!
Nope.
Climate change is real. Killing our economy with further domestic restrictions will just make it worse by driving more industry to ecologically irresponsible nations in Asia, but it's certainly real.
Voter suppression, while vastly overstated as part of the Left's commitment to maintain racial animosity, is real. It's unfortunate to see the issue watered down by dishonestly calling some things suppression, like we're seeing in Georgia, when they clearly aren't.
While I support a NHS style, single payer, no deductible healthcare system, I don't see any logical argument for declaring it a right. Especially when many in this country seem determined to eliminate the already enumerated rights that they don't like. My reading of the Constitution leaves me convinced that any such national health system would need to be covered with a new amendment so it will be in line with the 10th.
McCann'sCans
Gwinnett Bound
The point is that ultimately the disagreement is over policy and interpretation of facts, which is fine. The disagreement isn't about "do politicians try to scare people into voting for them," because it's pretty clear that both sides do that quite consistently. People just only see it as fear-mongering for the side they disagree with.
Jaw
It's OVER 5,000!
Sure, in general well adjusted people aren't narcissistic enough to think they should be elected. I prefer to deal with specific claims when possible.
In the tweet that started this conversation, VP Harris was quoted as saying that climate issues are the root cause of the current border crisis.
Now, we all realize that she should have been asked to go in depth to explain such an odd word salad answer, and we all know why she wasn't. But that aside, I can't see a reasonable argument she could have made to support her claim.
It was sort of an intersectionality answer where she was trying to earn as many points as possible by dragging other left agenda items into the conversation, regardless of whether or not they were qualified to be there. Certainly it was climate change fear mongering.
In the tweet that started this conversation, VP Harris was quoted as saying that climate issues are the root cause of the current border crisis.
Now, we all realize that she should have been asked to go in depth to explain such an odd word salad answer, and we all know why she wasn't. But that aside, I can't see a reasonable argument she could have made to support her claim.
It was sort of an intersectionality answer where she was trying to earn as many points as possible by dragging other left agenda items into the conversation, regardless of whether or not they were qualified to be there. Certainly it was climate change fear mongering.
sturg33
I
From my viewpoint, both parties fear monger but their solutions to the fear mongering are wildly different.
Generally, the left requires restrictions of liberty and more power to the state
Generally, the right tries to play defense and stay out of my life
Please note, the use of the word "generally"
For example.... the left talks about climate change... the world is gonna end in 12 years, ya know? And how do we stop that? Well, easy! Pass a $100 trillion centralized spending effort on socialist wishlist called the green new deal. While you're at it, we're gonna have to tax you on your carbon... and we're going to have restrict how much meat you can eat. It's for the environment afterall, and unless you want to kill all of civilization, these are sacrifices you will have to make.
The right's view on climate change is there is much we don't know. But generally, private enterprise is doing a much better job of innovating technology to reduce emissions... let's get out of their way to let them solve it.
How about covid? The left explains that even if we are healthy, we are risking killing grandma by breathing. In order to solve this issue... we must keep our kids out of schools, quit our jobs, muzzle our faces, not go to church, not congregate at all. We must take a medicine in order to have those freedoms back. If we don't like that, we are selfish grandma killers. Meanwhile, we will unilaterally decide to borrow and print trillions of dollars in order further make us dependent on the government to survive. It's how it has to be to beat this virus that has a 99.95 survival rate and freely available vaccines to those that want it.
With guns... the left insists we have to pass laws that do nothing for mass shootings but instead erode on the millions of law abiding gun owners 2nd amendment rights... and if we don't support that, then it must mean we support mass killings.
I can go on about this... but overall point is the solutions the left demands in order to avoid their fear mongering is destruction of our rights and liberty. The right has done this as well... particularly in foreign policy. It was the middle eastern fear mongering that drove me away from the GOP... luckily, Trump brought back a strand of non-interventionism that this country hasn't seen in decades and I'm hopeful it is here to stay.
McCann'sCans
Gwinnett Bound
Going back to the original tweet: climate is almost never the only factor in immigration, but it certainly does seem to be a root cause in many cases. The impact of more severe storms, fires, etc. has been felt in the US, and I imagine it is felt even more in places like Guatemala, Honduras, El Salvador, etc. where many people are living in/on the edge of poverty, the infrastructure isn't as good, the response isn't as well-financed, and the population density is anywhere from 5-15x what we see in America. Fair to say you don't think its as big a deal as is being suggested, but to suggest that it isn't reasonable or is somehow a lefty fantasy seems a bit much.
"In 2018, the World Bank estimated that three regions (Latin America, sub-Saharan Africa, and Southeast Asia) will generate 143 million more climate migrants by 2050.[3] In 2017, 68.5 million people were forcibly displaced, more than at any point in human history. While it is difficult to estimate, approximately one-third of these (22.5 million[4] to 24 million[5] people) were forced to move by “sudden onset” weather events—flooding, forest fires after droughts, and intensified storms. While the remaining two-thirds of displacements are the results of other humanitarian crises, it is becoming obvious that climate change is contributing to so-called slow onset events such as desertification, sea-level rise, ocean acidification, air pollution, rain pattern shifts and loss of biodiversity.[6] This deterioration will exacerbate many humanitarian crises and may lead to more people being on the move."
https://www.brookings.edu/research/the-climate-crisis-migration-and-refugees/
"In 2018, the World Bank estimated that three regions (Latin America, sub-Saharan Africa, and Southeast Asia) will generate 143 million more climate migrants by 2050.[3] In 2017, 68.5 million people were forcibly displaced, more than at any point in human history. While it is difficult to estimate, approximately one-third of these (22.5 million[4] to 24 million[5] people) were forced to move by “sudden onset” weather events—flooding, forest fires after droughts, and intensified storms. While the remaining two-thirds of displacements are the results of other humanitarian crises, it is becoming obvious that climate change is contributing to so-called slow onset events such as desertification, sea-level rise, ocean acidification, air pollution, rain pattern shifts and loss of biodiversity.[6] This deterioration will exacerbate many humanitarian crises and may lead to more people being on the move."
https://www.brookings.edu/research/the-climate-crisis-migration-and-refugees/
McCann'sCans
Gwinnett Bound
Fair enough. The difference being based on solutions makes sense. Largely a difference in philosophy. If you believe that- left to their own devices- everyone gets a fair shot at prosperity but some people win big and some people lose big and that is fine, then the Republican solutions make sense. If you believe that- left to their own devices- we would have significantly more inequality than we already do and instead should have a government try to even things out to some extent, then the Dem solutions make more sense.
cajunrevenge
Well-known member
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/30/us/politics/migrant-children-border.html
Kids in cages at border facilities down 83%....
Kids in cages at border facilities down 83%....
Jaw
It's OVER 5,000!
Good. Hopefully it's zero soon.