The Trump Presidency
- Thread starter The Tariff King
- Start date
It's crazy (but not surprising) that sturg believes profit incentive is the only possible thing that motivates and drives the greatest minds to do things like research and find cures.
goldfly
<B>if my thought dreams could be seen</B>
it's a hell of a fence to straddle to be so pro life
but suddenly changes when it comes to profits for big business for drugs that they have and have jacked the prices up on them and literately let people die from not being able to afford them now
Or one of the most important when the true crimes are revealed.
Thats a strawman. You know the discussion is about ongoing research to develop cures for deadly diseases today.
However, when you make the argument that things like insulin should effectively be for free you set the precedent where the whole profit incentive model is destroyed and then almost certainly kill the great research that is done on a daily basis by the greatest minds in the world.
These people that do research - How do you think they are compensated for their time?
How are the apparatuses they test on purchased?
sturg33
I
It's crazy to think that is my position... But you're long past rational thinking.
My fiance is a doctor. She's given up her 20s for schooling and taken on hundreds of thousands in debt.
Is she doing it for the money? No. She genuinely wants to help people.
Would she give up the prime of her life and go into massive debt if there weren't a financial reward behind it? No.
This isn't complicated people. American companies are the medical innovators in the world and create life saving drugs every year. The rest of the world can't afford to pay full price for it so our companies give it to them at a huge discount.
Don't want life saving drugs? Then yeah, turn off the profit mechanism. No profit, means no money to invest in the next life saving drugs.
Again, not complicated... But math is hard for you folks
goldfly
<B>if my thought dreams could be seen</B>
pointing out the lie that is pushed about research
from Fortune:
Drugmakers historically have blamed higher prices on the costs of research and development. And it is true that R&D is expensive, with companies typically spending more than they ultimately make in profits, according to Axios.
But such figures can be misleading. Marketing costs have grown substantially, according to an article in the Journal of the American Medical Association. Between 1997 and 2016, industry spending on marketing grew from $17.7 billion to $29.9 billion, largely owing to direct-to-consumer ads and marketing to health professionals to promote medicines.
Also, industry publications like Pharmaceutical Executive and notes from tax experts stress the ability for companies to take advantage of federal and state R&D tax credits, which can significantly reduce tax liabilities.
As a result, even with major R&D spending, pharmaceutical companies remain highly profitable. They have the tenth highest average after-tax profit levels of more than 100 different industries. And according to figures from Axios, while drug companies bring in 23% of health care’s U.S. revenue, they make 63% of the total profits.
from Fortune:
Drugmakers historically have blamed higher prices on the costs of research and development. And it is true that R&D is expensive, with companies typically spending more than they ultimately make in profits, according to Axios.
But such figures can be misleading. Marketing costs have grown substantially, according to an article in the Journal of the American Medical Association. Between 1997 and 2016, industry spending on marketing grew from $17.7 billion to $29.9 billion, largely owing to direct-to-consumer ads and marketing to health professionals to promote medicines.
Also, industry publications like Pharmaceutical Executive and notes from tax experts stress the ability for companies to take advantage of federal and state R&D tax credits, which can significantly reduce tax liabilities.
As a result, even with major R&D spending, pharmaceutical companies remain highly profitable. They have the tenth highest average after-tax profit levels of more than 100 different industries. And according to figures from Axios, while drug companies bring in 23% of health care’s U.S. revenue, they make 63% of the total profits.
What is the lie? I'd love to hear if you can articulate this further.
sturg33
I
He has no clue about anything related to economics.
goldfly
<B>if my thought dreams could be seen</B>
yeah, no profits
that's what i want
ffs
your starting point for things is the dumbest **** ever.
it's either a radical point here or there with you.
as if maybe we could have profits and still make it affordable so someone doesn't die from not being able to buy insulin
ffs
that's what i want
ffs
your starting point for things is the dumbest **** ever.
it's either a radical point here or there with you.
as if maybe we could have profits and still make it affordable so someone doesn't die from not being able to buy insulin
ffs
sturg33
I
If you could ever actually make an argument rather than an incoherent jumbling of words it might be easier to understand what position you're trying to take.
So if Im following you... You're ok with some profit, but not the profit they make today. What's the acceptable profit where you're not bitching?
Did you know that 2 of the 3 insulin sellers are European companies?
sturg33
I
By the way, using insulin as the rule is not being intellectually honest. It's a very unique case, controlled by three companies worldwide, and its rise in price is related specifically due to the lack of competitive market and very weird patent restrictions for that particular drug.
The problem is, using insulin as a catch all for "All PHARMA BAD AND EVIL" is lazy and frankly stupid.
There's a lot more going on in the pharma world that are extending and improving lives every year and it's pretty ****ing amazing that American companies are leading the way
Julio3000
<B>A Chip Off the Old Rock</B>
Man, it must be some kind of crazy coincidence that there happen to be very weird patent restrictions. It’s wild how these very weird patent restrictions write themselves into law.
Julio3000
<B>A Chip Off the Old Rock</B>
You are saying that Ukraine’s government was unaware what was at stake?
sturg33
I
It's not really a weird patent law. Just a weird drug that is expensive to make and wouldn't be much cheaper than the patented version today. There are generic versions but they aren't much cheaper than the expensive, patented one.