Will the real Jason Heyward please stand up?

zitothebrave said:
No they're not entirely. Sure there is a degree of opinion, but the evaluation is based off of results.
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And the results are given arbitrary values based off opinion. They do not take into account defensive alignments or strategies. And as Giles pointed their "value" is largely dependent on how the rest of the league is doing. A player can play exactly the same as last yr, but look better or worse depending on how everyone else in the league is doing.
 
Carp said:
And the results are given arbitrary values based off opinion. They do not take into account defensive alignments or strategies. And as Giles pointed their "value" is largely dependent on how the rest of the league is doing. A player can play exactly the same as last yr, but look better or worse depending on how everyone else in the league is doing.
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The same is true with offensive numbers like wrc+ and ops+. The whole idea is to judge what a player has done compared to the rest of his peers.
 
gilesfan said:
If you buy WAR as it pertains to the level of defense it attributes to a corner outfielders value.
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gilesfan said:
If you buy WAR as it pertains to the level of defense it attributes to a corner outfielders value.
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And base running too.

I'm sorry but your bro Harper is not a good defender or base runner. He just makes too many mistakes out there. Whether you but into WAR or not his offense is not good enough to make up for what Heyward provides in those two areas.
 
thewupk said:
And base running too.

I'm sorry but your bro Harper is not a good defender or base runner. He just makes too many mistakes out there. Whether you but into WAR or not his offense is not good enough to make up for what Heyward provides in those two areas.
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Their offense isn't way too far off. 128 vs 117. But Heyward being a plus runner and plus plus defender to harper being average to below average at them.
 
I do feel like Harper will grow in his abilities -- there is a godawful lot of raw talent there.

Plus, he can do this:

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thewupk said:
And base running too.

I'm sorry but your bro Harper is not a good defender or base runner. He just makes too many mistakes out there. Whether you but into WAR or not his offense is not good enough to make up for what Heyward provides in those two areas.
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Harper certainly isn't a good defender or base runner, merely average at both.

He's significantly better offensively though, at 3 years younger.
 
gilesfan said:
Harper certainly isn't a good defender or base runner, merely average at both.

He's significantly better offensively though, at 3 years younger.
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Trout is only one year older than Harper and has 2 MVP level seasons. Harper is a clear disappointment.
 
gilesfan said:
Harper certainly isn't a good defender or base runner, merely average at both.

He's significantly better offensively though, at 3 years younger.
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Remember reading an article on ESPN earlier this season saying Harper was one of the better young 5 tool guys. More toolsy than Harper since he didn't have a good arm.
 
gilesfan said:
Harper certainly isn't a good defender or base runner, merely average at both.

He's significantly better offensively though, at 3 years younger.
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Yes he's 3 years younger but I'm not sure what that has to do with anything. Coming into this year Heyward had a 348 WOBA and 119 wrc+ compared to Harpers .359 and 128. Better? Yes. Significantly better? I'm not sure about that.
 
thewupk said:
The same is true with offensive numbers like wrc+ and ops+. The whole idea is to judge what a player has done compared to the rest of his peers.
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But offensive stats like those are still WAY more accurate than any defensive stat
 
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