DOGE

nsacpi said:
Yes! Trump is the logical end result of the expansion of the welfare state. If that had not happened we would never have elected such a tyrant! Someone better warn Sweden! And Finland! and Denmark!
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He’s the end result of congress granting its powers to the executive branch coupled with a federal welfare system that enables the executive branch to to distribute funds based on its own self determined stipulations.

What leverage would a tyrant have in a democracy otherwise
 
I can think of a few tyrants who rose through democratic means and found plenty of leverage not related to the welfare state.

Our system of check-and-balances depend on a certain amount of self-restraint from all parties. If the president is not willing to live by the rules and the Congress doesn't hold him accountable then the system breaks down. Welfare state or not. Blaming the welfare state for Trump's abuses strikes me as a convenient ideologically driven belief not based on reality.
 
nsacpi said:
I can think of a few tyrants who rose through democratic means and found plenty of leverage not related to the welfare state.
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Am I boxing jelly? We don’t need to divert to Sweden… or Nazi era Germany… or whatever else you may be alluding to

In the US… in the year 2025…
 
In the US...in year 2025...we are dealing with the consequences of the voters making a very bad choice. They went with someone who had already demonstrated in his first term that he does not feel bound by constitutional constraints and the usual norms of our republican system. Has very little to do with the fact that almost 100 years ago we decided to start building a welfare state like every other modern country. Hope that's not the wrong flavored jelly.
 
The welfare state, that relies on executive agencies to disburse funding, grants, and loans has been used by this administration as well as previous administrations to sideline Congress to enact their own legislative agenda.

A few examples, Biden with student loan forgiveness, covid vaccines mandates where he threatened to withhold Medicare/medicaid funds. Trump is currently doing this by freezing $2b in federal funding with Harvard. Ruling by executive order decree is a recent trend that Trump is min maxing
 
ok...Trump is the logical end point of Biden et al

i'll just say this: once upon a time a group of philosophers devised a proof that God existed. It was splendid. But was demolished when some joker pointed out it worked equally well if you substituted pink flying elephant for God.

we could say Trump and his abuses of power are the logical consequence of any feature of the American landscape we don't like...if the redistributive policies we currently have in place floats your boat who am i to judge...personally i would go with the elites being too condescending and insufferable toward ordinary 'mericans...that's the one that floats my boat...at least it is consistent with the "I am your retribution" promise
 
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mqt said:
https://twitter.com/x/status/1930014200153420065

Okay, but is it really Musk’s fault if the people drafting legislation believe in fairy tales with zero evidence?
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Bannon saying what I said from the start. Show me the results not just headlines of people making claims. Show me the people prosecuted for fraud. The open secret no one talks about is the economy does better in the short term when the government spends more money. Thats why it never goes down no matter who wins. And why Republicans are fiscal conservatives when Democrats are in charge and spend like drunken sailors when Republicans are in charge.
 
Except Republicans are making cuts of over $1 trillion relative to baseline. It seems to me they are cutting spending. If that's all they did the deficit would come down. But that's not all they are doing. They are cutting funding for the IRS, which has the effect of reducing revenues. They are cutting taxes. Those are not incidental things. They are at the heart of their ideology. And happen to have the effect of greatly increasing the deficit. Our friends around here don't want to talk about that. Because their ideology also puts cutting IRS funding and cutting taxes above deficit reduction. They talk a good game about being fiscal hawks, but they don't walk the walk. Their priorities are somewhere else.
 
cajunrevenge said:
Bannon saying what I said from the start. Show me the results not just headlines of people making claims. Show me the people prosecuted for fraud. The open secret no one talks about is the economy does better in the short term when the government spends more money. Thats why it never goes down no matter who wins. And why Republicans are fiscal conservatives when Democrats are in charge and spend like drunken sailors when Republicans are in charge.
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Yep, short-term political gain is always going to be attractive and the reality of cutting spending is always unpopular compared to the concept. Republicans are now running into the issue of wanting to spend on their priorities and cut the taxes they promised, but have to grapple with the fact you have to cut *significantly* in other areas to do those two things. But that’s not good for them politically so we get the very silly lies.
 
mqt said:
Yep, short-term political gain is always going to be attractive and the reality of cutting spending is always unpopular compared to the concept. Republicans are now running into the issue of wanting to spend on their priorities and cut the taxes they promised, but have to grapple with the fact you have to cut *significantly* in other areas to do those two things. But that’s not good for them politically so we get the very silly lies.
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except they ARE cutting overall spending by in excess of $1 trillion over the next ten years

the deficit during those ten years is LARGER but for OTHER reasons...our friends around here prioritize those OTHER things (tax cuts, defunding the IRS) over deficit reduction

to square the circle they want spending cuts of a magnitude that is just not realistic for anyone with concerns about making it through the next election cycle...the voters would react very strongly against it...so they advocate for this fantasy bill that can only exist in a fairy tale...at least in the case of Elon it is consistent with his fascination and taste for science fiction
 
nsacpi said:
Except Republicans are making cuts of over $1 trillion relative to baseline. It seems to me they are cutting spending. If that's all they did the deficit would come down. But that's not all they are doing. They are cutting funding for the IRS, which has the effect of reducing revenues. They are cutting taxes. Those are not incidental things. They are at the heart of their ideology. And happen to have the effect of greatly increasing the deficit. Our friends around here don't want to talk about that. Because their ideology also puts cutting IRS funding and cutting taxes above deficit reduction. They talk a good game about being fiscal hawks, but they don't walk the walk. Their priorities are somewhere else.
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https://twitter.com/x/status/1930610488682946921
 
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