TLHLIM
- Thread starter sturg33
- Start date
Because they have scientific and medical reasons to believe that’s the appropriate course of action. You don’t have to accept they’re right for it to be insane to suggest that this entire group of people, which includes many, many people living fulfilling, productive lives and causing no issues to anybody, should be forcibly sent to state asylums until they’re cured or whatever. That’s just blatant government overreach in the exact manner you pretend to give a fuck about. Stop having your entire brain shut off on the implications of what you’re suggesting simply because you are sick of using pronouns or something.
sturg33
I
Yeah and there were scientific and medical reasons to wear masks and stand 6 feet apart that was settled. Only thing is there is as much or more research explaining its bullshit.
Im not seriously suggesting putting tranny in a mental.asylum, because half of it is social virtue anyway. But I AM suggesting to stop telling them that they are correct and they need to.be pumped full of hormones and that conservatives wish them dead. This lunatics parents supported his illness, as did his doctors and the state. They are ALL culpable in this, and deserve blame for the massacre of innocent children.
Just like the last half dozen or so of these events. They're insane and insane enough to where a handful of them who previously would have just killed themselves now want to take as many as they can with them bc we all dont go along with the delusion
cajunrevenge
Well-known member
The problem is its become a status symbol for the left to have a trans child so some of them are pushing them in to it. They also take jobs like teaching that gets them access to children specifically to push their gender ideology. If my 6 year old son tells me he is a girl I ask him who told him that. And if he wont tell me I am withdrawing him from any school or daycare he is in and find new ones. Check this out.
Jaw
It's OVER 5,000!
100%
Too many social progressives treat their politics as a religion that they evangelize for.
cajunrevenge
Well-known member
One way to counter it. Make parents and doctors legally liable if their child grows up and says they pushed them into something they didnt want and cant reverse.
This is a fair thing to bring up for the larger debate on gender and culture, but it does t really address my two main concerns from yesterday, which are:
1) The idea of bringing back asylums with the intent of forcibly locking up people who have not done anything wrong and are not presenting any danger to society.
2) The discrepancy between what right-wing grifters like Gunther here are saying and what medical doctors who work with people with gender dysphoria are doing. The explicit suggestion is that the child needs help, but the implication is that they need to be corrected. That is at odds with current medical practices, and my worry is that discrepancy will lead to more people advocating for Option 1 where they just institutionalize otherwise healthy people for having a gender identity the people running the country’s asylums don’t accept. That has profound implications on human rights.
I’m not trying to be flippant here, but you are welcome to look all that up. I’m not interested in getting into the weeds here because all I’d be doing is regurgitating a bunch of procedures and practices that I don’t have any actual experience with. My point isn’t really that doctors and scientists are infallible or that the current recommendations *must* be the right idea, but rather that pundits pushing this narrative have the same limited knowledge of the care being provided but that won’t stop them from advocating for what they believe is right for others.
It should be noted that the incidence rate of this outcome is quite low. It must be closely and critically tracked to ensure it doesn’t jump up, but this isn’t statistically happening much.
I genuinely welcome the skeptics in the science and clinical research of this field as I want as many people to live happy and healthy lives as possible, but I don’t think people who have no exposure to this in any way are the ones we should be having set the standards.
Quick question in response: if someone exercises their parental rights to go against the doctor’s recommendations to allow the child to transition and the child kills themselves, should that also result in legal liability? Fair is fair, right?
cajunrevenge
Well-known member
In they can prove refusing caused the suicide sure. I wouldnt want any parent held liable unless there was some proof. There are parents whose kid died because they refused to get their kid medical care and I support it. But it needs to be something that is a medical consensus and I highly doubt gender reassignment for kids is a consensus opinion. I support adults right to live life as they want as long as they dont harm others but I cant see myself ever being okay with sex changes for kids. If a kid is suicidal if he doesnt get a sex change then yeah he belongs in a nut house. Trans is a mental illness to begin with. Not all are dangerous. Those that are a danger to themselves are a danger to everyone. They need help not a sex change.
cajunrevenge
Well-known member
The issue is that this is statistically as big an understatement as you can possibly make. One thing we’ve gotten very bad at in society is differentiating between the impact of an event and its prevalence. Actively suicidal people, cis or trans, are frequently hospitalized against their will. We don’t need any new legislation for any of that to happen. For many trans folks, the sex change and accepting their gender identity *is* helping them live better lives. And yet we’re treating the cases of 7 or 8 disturbed individuals in a sea of other non-trans disturbed individuals shooting up schools and other public places as evidence that medicine has gotten it wrong. The mainstream right has not stopped once to question the actual motivations of this murderer. They just checked off the box of trans and nothing else mattered. There is a sizable amount of evidence in the manifesto that suggests the shooter was radicalized by a Satanist cult, and the religious right just… doesn’t care because they found their answer right away.
But what many on the right are suddenly advocating for is not what you’re suggesting here, but to consider every trans person a threat to society. A sitting member of Congress would be put in an institution against her will for the “crime” of following a treatment plan agreed upon between her and her doctor. This is why I’m being so critical about the suggestions in this thread. I’m not dogmatic about gender expression because I’m not trans and don’t have any frame of reference for what that would be like, or how to treat it. But my gripe is that there’s a rather vocal part of the country that knows nothing more than I do and has decided all by themselves that not only is it wrong to treat these people in the way medical doctors are treating them, irrespective of the effectiveness of that treatment.
cajunrevenge
Well-known member
Medicine got something wrong. This shooter should have been in the nut house. Much like the Uvalde killer should have been. All these school shooters have mental illness in common. I do blame Republicans for refusing common sense that would reduce these school shootings by limiting access to guns. They refuse to admit any person obssessed with guns and collecting a large amount of guns is a sign of mental illness if they dont actively hunt or use guns for a hobby.
I can not buy that these so called trans kids had it worse than everyone else. I went to school with Tom Boy girls and Effeminate boys. If a child might be trans I dont see why they need to be treated as the opposite sex. They can be a masculine girl or effeminate boy. They might get picked on but who didnt. I think its a crucial life experience to be in that position at a young age to overcome it. When they turn 18 and you still want to be a girl go ahead and live your best life. There needs to be a long period between "I think I want to be a girl" and putting a dress on Little Jimmy and calling him Shirley.
I will and would never support putting all trans kids in asylums but I feel the need to state that doctors opinions can be heavily politicized. My field of expertise is on the governments gaslighting its own people about Marijuana. When the government says this is a fact doctors fall in line. And I would need to get deep into any kind of study data on the issue that contradicts me because, again, I know a thing or two about rigged studies to reach a desired outcome. I cant trust them on face value.
I can not buy that these so called trans kids had it worse than everyone else. I went to school with Tom Boy girls and Effeminate boys. If a child might be trans I dont see why they need to be treated as the opposite sex. They can be a masculine girl or effeminate boy. They might get picked on but who didnt. I think its a crucial life experience to be in that position at a young age to overcome it. When they turn 18 and you still want to be a girl go ahead and live your best life. There needs to be a long period between "I think I want to be a girl" and putting a dress on Little Jimmy and calling him Shirley.
I will and would never support putting all trans kids in asylums but I feel the need to state that doctors opinions can be heavily politicized. My field of expertise is on the governments gaslighting its own people about Marijuana. When the government says this is a fact doctors fall in line. And I would need to get deep into any kind of study data on the issue that contradicts me because, again, I know a thing or two about rigged studies to reach a desired outcome. I cant trust them on face value.
Here’s where I think we are just talking past each other a bit. If you, like me, don’t want to just commit all trans people but don’t trust the medicine, I’m completely on board with accepting that. Again, I’m not here to convince others of something I don’t fully understand myself. I’m asking some others to consider the constitutional implications of the far more extreme responses from right-wing grifters and politicians. The claim “send all trans people to asylums” is grim. The claim “don’t blindly trust doctors and question their motivations” is reasonable.
As for the case of this individual, absolutely they were failed by medicine somewhere. I think it’s overly simplistic at best to reduce their mental health struggles to they are trans, so we should have known, which is where a lot of the right has taken it today, but this was a person clearly going through a crisis and it’s a failure that this wasn’t identified through the behaviors you’re mentioning about piling up guns and glorifying violence.
What you’re claiming is much more realistic, and I wish more had been done to help this troubled teen. But I do not under any circumstances excuse their murders under some justification of trans kids having it harder than any other group. Even if it’s true that bullying and lack of acceptance leads to increased anti-social outcomes, nobody made this person pull the trigger but themselves. So I reject the convenient excuses some on the left will want to make about Christian bigotry or discrimination. Millions of kids have suffered that without committing unspeakably evil murders. Where I’ve been otherwise pushing back is the suggestion that social acceptance of trans kids by the left is fueling these specific outcomes. It’s the other side of the “discrimination and bigotry leads to violence” coin, only it makes *less* sense because tolerance and acceptance aren’t typically drivers of mass murder.
For those like you, who might have a different view on trans issues, but doesn’t want to use your views to push for consenting adults to not receive care they agree to with a medical professional or to lock up someone who isn’t a danger to society, I’m not against that. But a lot of folks seem to think that their opinion on the medicine/science gives them the right to take away rights from others. And I understand that happens in both directions on this issue, but I don’t see how any sane person can think the solution is to just lock people up over gender without any other factors.