SOTU?

Hawk said:
I don't believe tax and spend is a viable economic direction given the current state of our fiscal system (it's too political, too multi-layered, and too porous).

In principle, yeah, it's beautiful. But so is Communism.
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Come on fellow Hawk, I know you're a serious conservative and there's nothing wrong with that strictly speaking, but surely to goodness you realize the hypocrisy and utter bull****e that's spewing out of the mouths of the far right at this point don't you?
 
Oklahomahawk said:
OK, how much actual experience do you have at the community college level (to establish a baseline)?
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Not enough to make an insensitive statement like I did. I didn't have trouble with college so basically I'm just being an arrogant ass right now. My apologies.
 
thethe said:
Not enough to make an insensitive statement like I did. I didn't have trouble with college so basically I'm just being an arrogant ass right now. My apologies.
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No problem dude, we all do that sometimes, myself at the top of the list. :icon_biggrin:

Believe it or not I don't actually disagree with quite a bit of what conservatives say about our educational system, just the causes and the potential solutions to said problems. To me it's a lot like the "how are we gonna afford community college for everyone" line that seems to be going around right now. To be honest I expected a better and slightly more lucid response line from the Repubs regarding last night's most recent line of political BS.

If you really want to have a debate on this issue why not tell me 3 or 4 things you, as a (seeming) conservative think about these issues and I'll be happy to debate it with you. Fair enough?
 
Oklahomahawk said:
Come on fellow Hawk, I know you're a serious conservative and there's nothing wrong with that strictly speaking, but surely to goodness you realize the hypocrisy and utter bull****e that's spewing out of the mouths of the far right at this point don't you?
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In respect to what, the economy?
 
thethe said:
I think the extreme on the other side is dangerous as well. Because big business continues to send jobs overseas to cheaper markets so their EPS can go up a few pennies for the next quarterly financial release.
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I believe the government can (to what extent they should is another subject completely) regulate those practices outside of carrot/stick financial play.
 
Dalyn said:
There are some great community colleges out there. That makes no difference to the discussion, in my opinion.
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Sure, but my point was that I don't believe past the community college level should be free as I think it will be a waste of resources. I'm just not sure the majority of people can handle the curriculum at that level or at least to the point where anything meaningful can be drawn from it.
 
Oklahomahawk said:
No problem dude, we all do that sometimes, myself at the top of the list. :icon_biggrin:

Believe it or not I don't actually disagree with quite a bit of what conservatives say about our educational system, just the causes and the potential solutions to said problems. To me it's a lot like the "how are we gonna afford community college for everyone" line that seems to be going around right now. To be honest I expected a better and slightly more lucid response line from the Repubs regarding last night's most recent line of political BS.

If you really want to have a debate on this issue why not tell me 3 or 4 things you, as a (seeming) conservative think about these issues and I'll be happy to debate it with you. Fair enough?
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I don't play well with others!

But in all honestly, I just don't think it would be a valuable use of our resources. I don't believe enough people take education seriously especially if its free. Its only until the money comes out of your pocket do you take more ownership of your success.
 
Hawk said:
I believe the government can (to what extent they should is another subject completely) regulate those practices outside of carrot/stick financial play.
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Yes, and to me that is probably the #1 problem with our economy today. I go into other companies all the time to perform audits. Some are among the largest in the world and others are mid-size companies. Thousands of people are being laid off each year just so the bottom line can look a bit tidier for institutional investors. This does not help the middle class in the slightest. Its sickening and if it doesn't stop the income gap will continue to grow and we will be looking at a revolution in this country that will endanger our safety.
 
People who can't afford community college now are the same kind of people who used to get tired of trying to survive off minimum wage and instead tried starting their own business. It's one of the things that made America great. It's one of the things Republicans still argue is a reason to keep minimum wage low. It no longer works. One of the reasons it no longer works is education. This would help correct that.
 
thethe said:
Sure, but my point was that I don't believe past the community college level should be free as I think it will be a waste of resources. I'm just not sure the majority of people can handle the curriculum at that level or at least to the point where anything meaningful can be drawn from it.
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I never said anything about it being free outside the first two years.
 
thethe said:
Yes, and to me that is probably the #1 problem with our economy today. I go into other companies all the time to perform audits. Some are among the largest in the world and others are mid-size companies. Thousands of people are being laid off each year just so the bottom line can look a bit tidier for institutional investors. This does not help the middle class in the slightest. Its sickening and if it doesn't stop the income gap will continue to grow and we will be looking at a revolution in this country that will endanger our safety.
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Some time when we have more time we can go into more depth about it. Surely you realize that every time the Repubs want to do something the Dems don't want to do the Dems have something of a "party line response" to it, and the Repubs do the same thing when the Nobama wants to do something that they don't think benefits the 1% sufficiently.

Can we agree that sending folks to community college for free is a better investment (strictly speaking) than invading Iraq? W found the money for HIS war, why can't Nobama find the money for his projects? I heard Mike Huckabee said not long ago that we should be concentrating on producing more plumbers, electricians, etc., rather than thinking everyone needed to go to a 4 year college. I mean, I saw what Huckabee REALLY was meaning by this but on its own merits I agree with him on this, everyone isn't cut out to be a 4 year college person, and we NEED more people who are trained for trades, etc.,

OK, when you have time, it's your turn.
 
Hawk said:
In respect to what, the economy?
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In all respects but for now we can just stick with the community college thing or the economy thing or whatever direction you want to go in. My response was to thethe's "defense" of Jindal's tweet but my utter loathing of the Republican party does show, I realize that and while I really don't disagree with them on nearly as much as you might think, I do utterly disagree with them on their "plan" to deal with those things on which we actually do, at least somewhat, agree.
 
Oklahomahawk said:
Didn't Jindal also sign legislation in La absolving oil companies (drilling folks I mean) for any further financial liabilities than they already paid for their past teenie tiny oil spills in the Gulf?
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I imagine he practiced spelling his name a lot beforehand.
 
thethe said:
But in all honestly, I just don't think it would be a valuable use of our resources. I don't believe enough people take education seriously especially if its free. Its only until the money comes out of your pocket do you take more ownership of your success.
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No one values education more than the poor bastard who can't afford it and is sentenced to a life of living paycheck to paycheck.
 
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