Braves in talks with DBacks for Trevor Cahill

Heyward was traded mid November.

The rumors of Justin being traded were picking up long before Markakis signed. So the white flag wasn't officially waved, but the writing was on the wall. Once Heyward was traded you could sense that the dominos would continue falling.
 
chop2chip said:
That's a separate argument. I agree that the contract was at least a year too long and probably wasn't the best idea for a team that doesn't have a good chance of competing.

But there is a separate contingency here that think he's garbage. He's not. He's a good above average player who would justify this contract if he basically maintains his production and stays healthy. The problem is that neither of those things are all that likely.
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He's not terrible. But, he's hasn't been worth 10 million in a year since 2008 and it was due to his defense somehow not grading out as being bad.
 
Knucksie said:
It's like this: and have said it before, there's an entire generation of Braves fans who never experienced a rebuild, let alone knowing what it was like when the team really sucked. In the late 80's, it was guaranteed that the team would lose 100 games. Now, if there's a sub-.500 season, you have no shortage of Chicken Littles. Simple solution: they should go whack off to Bryce Harper with Gilesfan.
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Been through plenty of 100 loss seasons. It's why it's no fun to go back. This season didn't have to be a 90 loss season, but the people in charge decided that it would be "to compete in 2017."
 
chop2chip said:
That's a separate argument. I agree that the contract was at least a year too long and probably wasn't the best idea for a team that doesn't have a good chance of competing.

But there is a separate contingency here that think he's garbage. He's not. He's a good above average player who would justify this contract if he basically maintains his production and stays healthy. The problem is that neither of those things are all that likely.
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My only issue is that last year was the only year in the last 5 where he was healthy all year and good enough at the same time to justify that contract.
 
Maybe Zito's cousin knows, but it'd be interesting to learn how Markakis is as a teammate and what kind of leadership he provides. With the infusion of prospects, somebody's going to have to step up and show them how to be professionals. If this is part of his overall makeup, then this was taken into consideration through the duration of the contract.
 
GovClintonTyree said:
Yes. When he was 45 and 55. He's 75 now.

Wow. Hard to believe.

Nothing wrong with the philosophy he outlined. There's a whole lot wrong with the execution the last six months.

They're selling that Frank was tearing the organization apart, and they're putting it back together. You know what? Frank won. Maybe he was a d*ck, but he won. He was clever and brought a lot of talent to Atlanta.

If he hadn't rolled snake eyes on his big money acquisitions, he'd be here and we'd be competing . I was OK or enthusiastic about all of them except Mel.

I just think it's worthwhile to deconstruct the current narrative. The story we were told when Frank was fired didn't really compute from a performance perspective. And that part got overlooked because they also said oh, by the way, he was a giant penis, and everybody focused on that. Fact: we averaged more than 90 wins per season and were a perennial contender for the four years leading up to '14. Fact: We were in the hunt for the first 3/4 of that awful year, when multiple guys underperforming expected contributions finally caught up to us.

If you want to talk about Schuerholz's five point philosophy, Frank was a hell of a lot closer to executing it than the Three Johns.

I don't love Frank. But I sure don't see how this "Mukaki rebuild" makes sense. Heyward and Upton expiring? Sign one of them and augment with a Markakis. Invest in difference makers and player drafting/development. Stop spending middle money for mediocre players.
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This thread needs no other posts.
 
zbhargrove said:
I just think its funny they had the same conversation about Markakis 2 days ago and 2 months ago... what a boring life.
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Actually a few months ago (when we were into Markakis) we talked via text. I just saw him for the first time in several months so we had a more in depth conversation. If you guys don't want to hear the opinion of someone who's spent many many many more hours watching Markakis play, and much more time invested into his performance, that's totally your call. When Markakis is what I expect him to be, then I don't want ot hear people crying about it.
 
Knucksie said:
Maybe Zito's cousin knows, but it'd be interesting to learn how Markakis is as a teammate and what kind of leadership he provides. With the infusion of prospects, somebody's going to have to step up and show them how to be professionals. If this is part of his overall makeup, then this was taken into consideration through the duration of the contract.
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Or you know we could have kept Jason around who by all accounts was a great team leader.

Markakis is a fine baseball guy as far as lockerroom and whatnots goes. He just can't play at a high level anymore. He'll be a bench level player before his contract is up.
 
zitothebrave said:
Actually a few months ago (when we were into Markakis) we talked via text. I just saw him for the first time in several months so we had a more in depth conversation. If you guys don't want to hear the opinion of someone who's spent many many many more hours watching Markakis play, and much more time invested into his performance, that's totally your call. When Markakis is what I expect him to be, then I don't want ot hear people crying about it.
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This just in, people can have different opinions about different players. All of us watch a lot of Braves baseball and we don't agree. So why is your cousins word the final word on Markakis? Is he incapable of being wrong or more importantly could it be he's bitter about losing a long time fan favorite?

For the record I don't love Markakis. I don't think he's ever lived up to the hype but I think he's solid enough. I would have preferred not signing him to a 4 year contract, it's the one thing Hart has done that I'm not crazy about but I think the hatred he's receiving by people like you is because of who he's replacing. You'll have a hard time convincing me otherwise.
 
And if Markakis has a good year I'm sure we'll hear about what a lucky season he's having and next year will be different. We've seen it before, some people are never wrong and have an answer ready for every possible situation.
 
Isn't there some other site that rates Markakis' defense as positive?

He is most certainly getting an unfair wrap around here as a player. Is the contract too long? Sure. But it isn't crazy to assume he will still be a productive player for us regardless.
 
zitothebrave said:
Or you know we could have kept Jason around who by all accounts was a great team leader.

Markakis is a fine baseball guy as far as lockerroom and whatnots goes. He just can't play at a high level anymore. He'll be a bench level player before his contract is up.
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Yeah, keep him for 1 season and get nothing in return for a damn good player but a first round pick that has a limited chance of ever doing squat for the Braves. Sounds like a great strategy.
 
Carp said:
Isn't there some other site that rates Markakis' defense as positive?

He is most certainly getting an unfair wrap around here as a player. Is the contract too long? Sure. But it isn't crazy to assume he will still be a productive player for us regardless.
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And when inflation continues to hit baseball his 10M will look like less and less of an investment.
 
Carp said:
Isn't there some other site that rates Markakis' defense as positive?

He is most certainly getting an unfair wrap around here as a player. Is the contract too long? Sure. But it isn't crazy to assume he will still be a productive player for us regardless.
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There is like one stat that suggests Markakis isn't crap on defense. Comapred to 3 or 4 that say he is. I think most people assumptions of Nick are accurate. Average hitter (for his position) and bad defensively. That grades out to slightly below average player.
 
thethe said:
And when inflation continues to hit baseball his 10M will look like less and less of an investment.
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That line of thinking makes any bad contract look better down the road. In 2 years Chris Johnson's 9 million dollar salary will be a steal.
 
thewupk said:
That line of thinking makes any bad contract look better down the road. In 2 years Chris Johnson's 9 million dollar salary will be a steal.
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I think there is a certain truth to that although Markakis will be more productive than Johnson.
 
thethe said:
I think there is a certain truth to that although Markakis will be more productive than Johnson.
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I'm certain Markakis will be as well. But a bad contract doesn't become not bad because of salary inflation. It just becomes more manageable.
 
ChapelHillMatt said:
This just in, people can have different opinions about different players. All of us watch a lot of Braves baseball and we don't agree. So why is your cousins word the final word on Markakis? Is he incapable of being wrong or more importantly could it be he's bitter about losing a long time fan favorite? .
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Did I say his word was final? He's a guy who watches 100+ Orioles games a season, and has followed Markakis through the minors. You don't have to regard his opinion. But he's seen the slide fthat stats indicate happened. And pointed out one that I hasn't read about as well.
 
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