Because your viewpoint is absolutely right with no chance of being wrong?
Hart: No Heyward, Cespedes, Upton
- Thread starter Cormier's Spring
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Because your viewpoint is absolutely right with no chance of being wrong?
Heyward
<B>Voted Worst Poster <br>'13, '14, '15 (Co-Winner
Can we at least let Olivera play some games before saying the trade was horrible?
Why do you hate everything we do, is it because Hart traded away Jason, really curious.
NYCBrave
Well-known member
Problem with Gordon is he'll be 32 next year, and not really the source of power we covet
sturg33
I
Of course it can be wrong. But the data and history suggest that players fall off a cliff. And we traded some REAL talent for someone who may fall off of a cliff by the time we need him. And - that is of course assuming - he is healthy enough to play.
I don't think there's anything wrong with admitting the trade made no sense. Especially now, as it appears we're not going to go for it in 2016. In fact, I seriously question anyone's objective judgement if they can't at least question the logic behind the trade
sturg33
I
I've never ignored anyone... but I think I get dumber just reading your opinions.
What if I like the logic of potentially having an impact bat for peanuts per year so we can fill the rest of our needa?
sturg33
I
It wasn't "peanuts." You have to account the talent we gave up as real currency.
And I think this year's offense has really lowered our standards for "impact bat." I think it's been shown over and over... best case scenario - BEST CASE - is we get an .800 OPS, and that's assuming he played this year at age 30, not two years from now at age 32
Heyward
<B>Voted Worst Poster <br>'13, '14, '15 (Co-Winner
Back at ya, all you do is bash everything we do, but you're such a great poster.
800 OPS bat is an impact player. He also didn't get 60 mil because of that ceiling.
steveAKAslick
Mashin' to Mississippi
Yeah, I don't get the love affair for Braun, who is a guy over 30 whose best years were when he was juicing...Also, he's one of my most hated players in baseball ever since he lied and blamed his positive test on the guy that collected his test...was a total asshole move doing that to that guy and potentially affecting his job...there's not two things in this world that I despise more than a liar or a thief
ATLBraves247
Arizona Fall Leaguer
Get real dude, Heyward will not be a brave
I really don't know why you keep throwing out that contract as though it means much of anything. $60 million over 6 years is not a contract you give someone you expect to be a huge stud. Obviously you have to account for the fact that he is an unknown, which brings his value down some, but it's still not a big contract.
And it was the Dodgers who paid it, and they gave him quite a bit more than anyone expected a team to give Olivera.
Look at Abreu's contract for comparison. Oliver was paid like an unknown with a chance to be a good bat, nothing more. I would say an .800-.820 OPS is the absolute most we can hope for.
Horsehide Harry
<B>Mr. Free Trade</B>
The first problem Braves fan have is the whole idea of "Retool or Reload" vs "rebuild." It's all semantics designed to hopefully not lose the fanbase.
Everyone should understand by now that this is a "rebuild." The stated time frame was to have a competitive team when the new stadium opens in 2017. Every move, every, is designed for that purpose OR SHOULD BE. Otherwise you aren't being true to your stated purpose.
It was easy to see that some of the young controllable MLB pitching was going to be shown the door in trades if you accept what is now a widely accepted belief that hitting is hard to find and mostly non-existent on the FA market assuming you don't overpay for the few (arguable) high end bats out there such as Heyward, Upton and Cespedes. Taking as a given that those three (and other FA bats) are good, and won't command more money than they are reasonably worth (which is debatable but not part of this discussion), then you have to determine how they fit with the team and the goal of 2017.
What does the team NEED? Bats, specifically RH power bats, generally for all OF positions (most critically LF), 3B and Catcher. Your only core bat is Freeman and he's a LH power bat who should get better. The other current core position player is Simmons whose value is tied up with his defense which is OK considering his position. No other everyday player for the Braves is anywhere near top ten for their position in baseball.
The trade of Wood was predictable. I still think Miller and/or Teheran might see the door too in the Braves efforts to find bats, especially since there ARE viable replacements on the FA market that will be available.
The trade of Peraza was also predictable considering that what little the Braves DO have in the minor league system in terms of bats is similar players offensively at different defensive positions - Simmons, Jace, Peraza, Smith, Albies, Ciriaco, etc. You are never going to see a lineup full of those guys. The whole "play Peraza at 3B with Simmons at short and Jace at 2B and Smith in CF never made ANY sense.
So the question is not the trade of Wood and Peraza but the return of Oliveras, the pick and the throw in pitcher. The key is the Olivera bat and will it play at a high level, say (.800+ OPS) for the next five years. Hart thinks so. If it does then the trade was most likely a win. If it plays there for TWO years, then fades to a .650OPS bat for the last three years, then it is a disaster of a trade.
It is a gamble, one where Hart is betting that the time off that Olivera has experienced in recent years will help push off the devolution caused by time.
Everyone should understand by now that this is a "rebuild." The stated time frame was to have a competitive team when the new stadium opens in 2017. Every move, every, is designed for that purpose OR SHOULD BE. Otherwise you aren't being true to your stated purpose.
It was easy to see that some of the young controllable MLB pitching was going to be shown the door in trades if you accept what is now a widely accepted belief that hitting is hard to find and mostly non-existent on the FA market assuming you don't overpay for the few (arguable) high end bats out there such as Heyward, Upton and Cespedes. Taking as a given that those three (and other FA bats) are good, and won't command more money than they are reasonably worth (which is debatable but not part of this discussion), then you have to determine how they fit with the team and the goal of 2017.
What does the team NEED? Bats, specifically RH power bats, generally for all OF positions (most critically LF), 3B and Catcher. Your only core bat is Freeman and he's a LH power bat who should get better. The other current core position player is Simmons whose value is tied up with his defense which is OK considering his position. No other everyday player for the Braves is anywhere near top ten for their position in baseball.
The trade of Wood was predictable. I still think Miller and/or Teheran might see the door too in the Braves efforts to find bats, especially since there ARE viable replacements on the FA market that will be available.
The trade of Peraza was also predictable considering that what little the Braves DO have in the minor league system in terms of bats is similar players offensively at different defensive positions - Simmons, Jace, Peraza, Smith, Albies, Ciriaco, etc. You are never going to see a lineup full of those guys. The whole "play Peraza at 3B with Simmons at short and Jace at 2B and Smith in CF never made ANY sense.
So the question is not the trade of Wood and Peraza but the return of Oliveras, the pick and the throw in pitcher. The key is the Olivera bat and will it play at a high level, say (.800+ OPS) for the next five years. Hart thinks so. If it does then the trade was most likely a win. If it plays there for TWO years, then fades to a .650OPS bat for the last three years, then it is a disaster of a trade.
It is a gamble, one where Hart is betting that the time off that Olivera has experienced in recent years will help push off the devolution caused by time.
I think best case is Matt Carpenter with slightly more power, to be honest. That would be a 4-6 WAR player most likely. I would take that best case scenario all day.
Heyward
<B>Voted Worst Poster <br>'13, '14, '15 (Co-Winner
Yep, with all the concerns Cespedes/JUpton have, they are better fits than a Heyward or Gordon.
Not that i see us signing either of the first two.
50PoundHead
Hessmania Forever
Horsehide Harry gets it completely correct.
nsacpi
Expects Yuge Games
The availability of so many FA starting pitchers and the fact that every front office knows they are out there affects what we can get for guys like Wood, Teheran and Miller. It is not a good time to be trading pitching for hitting.
bravesnumberone
Well-known member
Heyward
<B>Voted Worst Poster <br>'13, '14, '15 (Co-Winner
You mean, like getting two more outfielders over 30 and declining?
Nice troll piece except both are gone after 2016 unless either got 550 AB's.
Stay bitter though.