Heyward to Cubs for less than $200M

smootness said:
I feel like you're intentionally missing the point.
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Nope. Just being an *sshole because I let myself get dragged into yet another useless conversation about Jason Heyward. That is to say I'm no more "intentionally missing the point" any more than the Heywardites intentionally miss the point that he was a Cardinal and is now a Cub.

Cut the cord for crying out loud.
 
thewupk said:
So with your own post bolded. Is that what the Braves need? I would think the Braves need good hitters and players that can actually play defense. Something the Braves will be lacking in 2016 an something Heyward is good at on both ends. Again, what good is that right handed power hitter that hits 25+ homers if he's Dan Uggla. Did you want him hitting in the 4th spot in 2013? This is why it important to look at the whole picture and not come up with preconceived ideas of what the team needs. Would a power hitter be nice? Sure. But as I mentioned with Uggla it's important to know what else comes with that. Homers by itself tells me nothing.
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That's exactly it. They need a 5'8, 315 lb. guy with one leg shorter than the other who runs the 40 in 6 minutes and drinks beer between ABs while he's DHing in his team's softball games at the Rec Department.

Everything has to be the opposite extreme if it doesn't fit someone's narrative.

As for the "whole picture" part, I'm afraid I'm in the minority that does. Most posters here have wanted The Johns run out of town since last November. Until the Miller trade of course.
 
clvclv said:
Nope. Just being an *sshole because I let myself get dragged into yet another useless conversation about Jason Heyward. That is to say I'm no more "intentionally missing the point" any more than the Heywardites intentionally miss the point that he was a Cardinal and is now a Cub.

Cut the cord for crying out loud.
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Huh? I haven't once suggested the Braves shouldn't have traded Heyward or should have signed him as a FA. I love Heyward, so I was initially ticked about the trade, but I soon realized the rationale and am more than happy with the way things have turned out. I am glad we traded him.

I could not care less at this point that he is a Cub except that it means the Cubs are loaded. My entire point is that he is worth $23 million/year, not that I'm angry the Braves didn't pay him that. My discussion of Heyward has nothing to do with the Braves at this point.
 
thewupk said:
Right. But that's a big issue for the Braves if this is indeed the case. We are now essentially the A's and Ray's of the world. When a player gets too expensive we trade him. That leads to windows of 2-3 years and then hopefully competing in another 2-3 years with a 2-3 year window. If the Braves want that continued success they are going to need to increase their payroll.
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I wouldnt say we're the A's/Rays.

Payroll will go up when the stadium opens, to what extent, im not sure.

The FA market looks blah next year, 2018 looks quite crazy.
 
VirginiaBrave said:
Bottomline, Heyward is a B + player that got paid A + money. Good for him but great for the Braves that they are not saddled by a contract they may well wish they could get out from under sooner than the end. See Uggla and Melvin...
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Really, he's a 26 year old A- player who got paid A- money. In a world where a Cano gets 10/240 at age 32, Greinke gets 6/206 at 32, Stanton gets 12/325 at 25, etc. I don't know why people keep thinking this is some kind of massive overpay. This is what good, young players cost now. This isn't 2005 when JD Drew got 5/55 coming off an MVP-caliber season at age 29; half of baseball can afford to pay free agents massive contracts, it's not just the Yankees and Red Sox anymore.
 
rawwr said:
Really, he's a 26 year old A- player who got paid A- money. In a world where a Cano gets 10/240 at age 32, Greinke gets 6/206 at 32, Stanton gets 12/325 at 25, etc. I don't know why people keep thinking this is some kind of massive overpay. This is what good, young players cost now. This isn't 2005 when JD Drew got 5/55 coming off an MVP-caliber season at age 29; half of baseball can afford to pay free agents massive contracts, it's not just the Yankees and Red Sox anymore.
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Everybody, read this post at least three times, until it starts to sink in.
 
Either way, he's not ours so his value or perceived value doesn't mean much.

I think he's overpaid, but since he's on the Cubs, I hope he tears it up. Their lineup is downright scary.
 
If the braves are going to be good they are going to have to have multiple 20 million guys. Or we will have to sell off a lot of guys like Tampa used to.
 
Russ2dollas said:
If the braves are going to be good they are going to have to have multiple 20 million guys. Or we will have to sell off a lot of guys like Tampa used to.
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2018 FA looks to be an all time great class.

Obviously some will re-sign, etc but there's a ton of top names.
 
Since we're on the topic of payroll, some people might appreciate this image listing 2015 opening day payroll / 2014 revenue. The Braves percentage is second to last at 37%, only the Marlins were lower.
 
clvclv said:
That's exactly it. They need a 5'8, 315 lb. guy with one leg shorter than the other who runs the 40 in 6 minutes and drinks beer between ABs while he's DHing in his team's softball games at the Rec Department.

Everything has to be the opposite extreme if it doesn't fit someone's narrative.

As for the "whole picture" part, I'm afraid I'm in the minority that does. Most posters here have wanted The Johns run out of town since last November. Until the Miller trade of course.
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The extremes are made because your 25 homer player may be a great hitter, a ****ty one, or somewhere in between. The Royals had 3 guys hit over 20 homers (none over 22) and one of them was a ****ty hitter. They were next to last in homers in the AL. But what they did have was a lot of good hitters. Including when they got Zobrist they had 6 players with a WRC+ of 120 or higher. Power is the most expensive stat in baseball and one I would rather not have to pay for on the open market.
 
Heyward said:
I wouldnt say we're the A's/Rays.

Payroll will go up when the stadium opens, to what extent, im not sure.

The FA market looks blah next year, 2018 looks quite crazy.
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Hopefully. We need to get to the 130 million plus range to be serious players year after year.
 
mossy said:
Either way, he's not ours so his value or perceived value doesn't mean much.

I think he's overpaid, but since he's on the Cubs, I hope he tears it up. Their lineup is downright scary.
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Not true. Each player sets the market for the next. It won't be directly but Heyward getting this much will eventually have an impact on our players when it comes to pay them in 4+ years. And by then I wonder how people will react when above average players are making 20 million a year.
 
thewupk said:
The extremes are made because your 25 homer player may be a great hitter, a ****ty one, or somewhere in between. The Royals had 3 guys hit over 20 homers (none over 22) and one of them was a ****ty hitter. They were next to last in homers in the AL. But what they did have was a lot of good hitters. Including when they got Zobrist they had 6 players with a WRC+ of 120 or higher. Power is the most expensive stat in baseball and one I would rather not have to pay for on the open market.
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You nailed it. There's a chance Heyward's lack of homers actually caused him to be slightly underpaid relative to his actual value.
 
clvclv said:
That's exactly it. They need a 5'8, 315 lb. guy with one leg shorter than the other who runs the 40 in 6 minutes and drinks beer between ABs while he's DHing in his team's softball games at the Rec Department.

Everything has to be the opposite extreme if it doesn't fit someone's narrative.

As for the "whole picture" part, I'm afraid I'm in the minority that does. Most posters here have wanted The Johns run out of town since last November. Until the Miller trade of course.
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You trying to be my agent?
 
Heyward said:
Alex Gordon is pretty good defensively, regarding his time in RF, that was when he was at 3B and didnt transition to the outfield yet.

He's not as good as Heyward defensively but there isnt a massive gap either.
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No there is a massive gap. Heyward in his last 3 years Gordon has a 50 DRS and 40.4 UZR as a LF in 3601.2 innings, Heyward has a 69 DRS and 56.0 UZR in 3232.0 innings. The other top 3 defenders in LF in that time frame are Marte and Cespedes, For Heyward it's Reddick and Calhoun. When Heyward and Reddick have played CF they've been positive defenders, when Cespedes played CF he was a turd, When Marte's played CF hee's been below average to a turd Heyward is facing much stronger competition in RF. THink about the bad defenders too. In LF you have guys like Dom Brown, Melky Cabrera, Josh WIllingham, etc. In RF your "bum" defenders are guys like Markakis, Hunter, and Beltran. 2 guys who're old as **** and used to be quite good CFers, and one guy who used to really be good in RF before he lost his range.
 
zitothebrave said:
No there is a massive gap. Heyward in his last 3 years Gordon has a 50 DRS and 40.4 UZR as a LF in 3601.2 innings, Heyward has a 69 DRS and 56.0 UZR in 3232.0 innings. The other top 3 defenders in LF in that time frame are Marte and Cespedes, For Heyward it's Reddick and Calhoun. When Heyward and Reddick have played CF they've been positive defenders, when Cespedes played CF he was a turd, When Marte's played CF hee's been below average to a turd Heyward is facing much stronger competition in RF. THink about the bad defenders too. In LF you have guys like Dom Brown, Melky Cabrera, Josh WIllingham, etc. In RF your "bum" defenders are guys like Markakis, Hunter, and Beltran. 2 guys who're old as **** and used to be quite good CFers, and one guy who used to really be good in RF before he lost his range.
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But in terms of the value they've given their respective teams, the gap really isn't all that big.
 
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