Oregon

The Don said:
Remember this guy

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Isn't that Ringo??? I don't know him but I do recall he was one of Clive's sniper types back when he should have been nailed by the Feds. Personally I think his little shenanigan was worse than what's going on in Oregon right now. At least these guys waited until it was Winter and noone will (hopefully get hurt) by their little statement, other than the fact that they didn't properly lay in provisions when this all started. To be totally honest after all I ate over the holidays I should probably go stand guard with them for a few days, to try and lose a few pounds (since they allegedly forgot to bring snacks. Apparently one of Obama's czars must have been in charge of catering for this.
 
Garmel said:
Uh, yeah they are. Their ideas seem a little strange for mainstream Christians but they are Christians. Come on, Bedell. Don't be small-minded. I've dealt with that enough on this thread.
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I'm not being small-minded, nor am I denigrating their beliefs. I'm speaking historically and theologically. I can call myself a Buddhist, but that doesn't make me one. Mormons may call themselves Christians, but when you deny fundamental catholic (meaning "universally held") doctrines/tenets of Christianity, you do not have the historical/theological right to call yourself "Christian" (it is dishonest). Since nearly the beginning of the Christian Church, those core, orthodox tenets have been spelled out in the great Ecumenical Creeds of the Church - like the Apostles' Creed and the Nicene Creed. Mormons do not hold to such. Their theology (doctrine of God), their Christology (doctrine of Christ), their soteriology (doctrine of salvation), their eschatology (doctrine of last things), etc., are all at odds with the historic, orthodox Christian Faith. Christianity isn't a waxed nose that can be molded into just any old form one likes. It's has it's distinguishing characteristics (theology and piety). Mormonism has a different theology and piety. And that's fine and all. it just isn't Christian.
 
BedellBrave said:
Christianity isn't a waxed nose that can be molded into just any old form one likes. It's has it's distinguishing characteristics (theology and piety).
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They're classified as Christians. Christianity can be molded. That's the whole point. Anybody who comes to Jesus is a Christian even if it conflicts with your beliefs.
 
Garmel said:
They're classified as Christians. Christianity can be molded. That's the whole point. Anybody who comes to Jesus is a Christian even if it conflicts with your beliefs.
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But what "Jesus" - that's the point (or an aspect of it). Christianity can't mean just any old thing or it means nothing. And it's not that the Bundy's beliefs conflict with mine - mine aren't the measure - it's that they conflict with the core doctrines of what is Christianity.

Certainly there are differences of opinion on what could be considered secondary, tertiary, etc., doctrines. But not those core teachings that have marked the Church through the centuries and across the globe. Let me give you an example. I could call myself a Trinitarian Muslim. But that wouldn't make me a Muslim because a decidedly non-Trinitarian Unitarianism is a defining doctrine of Islam.

Let Mormons believe what they are convicted to believe. But let's have the historical honesty to call it something other than Christianity. That's all I am saying.
 
BedellBrave said:
But what "Jesus" - that's the point (or an aspect of it). Christianity can't mean just any old thing or it means nothing. And it's not that the Bundy's beliefs conflict with mine - mine aren't the measure - it's that they conflict with the core doctrines of what is Christianity.

Certainly there are differences of opinion on what could be considered secondary, tertiary, etc., doctrines. But not those core teachings that have marked the Church through the centuries and across the globe. Let me give you an example. I could call myself a Trinitarian Muslim. But that wouldn't make me a Muslim because a decidedly non-Trinitarian Unitarianism is a defining doctrine of Islam.

Let Mormons believe what they are convicted to believe. But let's have the historical honesty to call it something other than Christianity. That's all I am saying.
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Not trying to get any more involved in this than I already am, but don't Mormoms believe (among whatever other things they believe) that Jesus and Lucifer were/are brothers, rather than Jesus being the Son of God and Lucifer being a fallen archangel? Or am I getting them confused with someone else?
 
Oklahomahawk said:
Not trying to get any more involved in this than I already am, but don't Mormoms believe (among whatever other things they believe) that Jesus and Lucifer were/are brothers, rather than Jesus being the Son of God and Lucifer being a fallen archangel? Or am I getting them confused with someone else?
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Yes. They believe that the "Father" fathered (by a mother god) all spirits and that Jesus and Satan are spirit-brothers.

They are really polytheists.
 
BedellBrave said:
Yes. They believe that the "Father" fathered (by a mother god) all spirits and that Jesus and Satan are spirit-brothers.

They are really polytheists.
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Yeah, that could never work for me, but I've known a handful of Mormons over the years, not a lot, but quite a few for the area where I live and I can't think of one of them I didn't like . Weird how that stuff works sometimes isn't it?
 
Oklahomahawk said:
Yeah, that could never work for me, but I've known a handful of Mormons over the years, not a lot, but quite a few for the area where I live and I can't think of one of them I didn't like . Weird how that stuff works sometimes isn't it?
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Most mormons I know are good people. And their religion is almost certainly part of that. But it's not Christianity by basically any standard.
 
I like Mormons better than Jehovah's Witnesses. The JW's seemed more cultish and creepy than the Mormons, whereas the Mormons were just very polite.
 
The Don said:
I like Mormons better than Jehovah's Witnesses. The JW's seemed more cultish and creepy than the Mormons, whereas the Mormons were just very polite.
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Jehovah's Witnesses are a really popular end of days sect. But most of their beliefs are in line with standard christian doctrine. But they're a cult. Just a kind of ****ty one.
 
Isn't every religion is by definition "a cult", at least at first? If it survives, it grows into a social/political movement, but it's still a cult. The rules and customs become lax over time, giving opening for new opportunists to make new cults.
 
Runnin said:
Isn't every religion is by definition "a cult", at least at first? If it survives, it grows into a social/political movement, but it's still a cult. The rules and customs become lax over time, giving opening for new opportunists to make new cults.
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I agree. Mormonism is no more or no less of a cult than Christianity is.
 
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