There are 3 OF positions.
Braves trade Mallex and Simmons to M's for Gohara and Burrows
- Thread starter Enscheff
- Start date
There are 3 OF positions.
Just a year ago, you were claiming Mallex was a top 100 prospect.
My point wasn't necessarily praising Mallex. Just that he might have better production this year giving 600 ABs than Nick or Kemp; even in left field.
Jaw
It's OVER 5,000!
We get that you do lots of research. That's cool, and could really bring a lot to the board.
After spending all that time, would it really be hard for you to spend the minimal effort required to not be an ass?
That's a serious question, not meant in any malicious way. It's obvious that you are intentionally being an ass so I hope you aren't offended. It's just a shame, because you are actually insightful when you attempt to have meaningful discussion.
I state facts that counter many of the opinions of the posters here, and that seems to offend them because they think their uninformed opinions are as valid as the facts I present. Folks do not like being told they are wrong, and many posters here are wrong very often, so it upsets them. When they get upset, they start with the nasty remarks.
Now go through and quote the nasty things folks say to me. I'll wait for your plea to them to "play nice".
GovClintonTyree
<B>Vencer a Los Doyers</B>
When I called you an asshole, it was because you condescendingly called me a homer for suggesting Teheran was probably significantly better than a 2.5 WAR and Smyly less, if he continued as he has throughout his career.
It was the condescension and the assumption that your analysis was superior to mine, assuming that mine was rooted in an inability to be objective - and the fact that you repeatedly behave this way - that led to my reaction.
Looks like you're an honors graduate of the McCarthy/Cohn/Trump School of "apologize for nothing, just attack." Your parents must be so proud.
Spoiler alert: it doesn't end well.
Managuarantano's Volunteers
<B><I>The Artist Formally Known as <P>Ventura's St
Because if Mallex hits .200 this year or gets injured he's essentially a worthless player for trading.
Or did you love holding on to Grilli until he got injured/was terrible?
I think you are on to something with the Grilli fiasco. Many folks suggested the Braves had a Grilli for Severino deal lined up, but by the Braves hesitated. After Grilli got hurt, Severino had rocketed up prospect rankings, and was nearly untouchable.
So in that sense, yes, getting burned by the Grilli scenario might have added a sense of urgency to add this arm to the organization while they could.
However, if you are going to play up Mallex's risk, why are you ignoring Gohara's risk? Isn't a fat 20 year old pitcher that hasn't gotten out of Low-A ball with a history of shoulder problems a serious risk to crash and burn too?
Who is the riskier asset, Mallex or Gohara? Mallex has already produced 1 WAR at the MLB level. I think he is orders of magnitude less risky than Gohara, and I think all non-Braves-homer prospect evaluators would agree.
So which asset is riskier? Mallex or Gohara?
Managuarantano's Volunteers
<B><I>The Artist Formally Known as <P>Ventura's St
I agree that Gohara's more risky, but I think the Braves foresee a similar rise in prospect value for Gohara (like Severino had) while thinking Mallex's value will remain the same or worsen.
Not sure I agree with them, but I think that's the cause for the urgency (ex: In a fantasy world where we had Mallex and not Touki, I'm not sure I would trade Mallex for Touki despite his seemingly improved control).
I challenge you to go back and find a thread where I was the first person to get nasty. In almost all cases someone, like you, gets upset because I present facts that contradict your opinion (in this case that automated projection systems somehow have something against Teheran and unfairly love Smyly, as if algorithms can show favoritism), and lash out with name calling and personal attacks.
I then proceed to demonstrate how stupid they are by presenting more facts, and throw some name calling in for good measure. Then, without fail, the other person starts whining about how mean I am, and/or starts making points that aren't even counter to the disagreement we were having. In fact, one foold just this morning decided to jump in to argue about LHers in the Braves system being better than ALL pitchers of any system, and didn't even understand the statement I contradicted...and then misunderstood it TWICE!
And then, finally, a few other members of the Goof Troop jump in with some more personal attacks. They all like each others posts attacking me, pat each other on the back, and feel a little better about themselves and how stupid they are.
I'm not complaining. I don't mind taking jabs from folks on the internet. I'm just explaining how 99% of these exchanges go.
Silliest thing is that I have stated several times I think the projections for Julio are low, and I only said Smyly was better than the 3 pitchers acquired this offseason. You took issue with me posting facts about the projected numbers of the Braves rotation compared to Smyly. I apologize that facts offend you.
zbhargrove
Well-known member
You start all the personal insults EVERY time.
Fair enough, that's my bad. I was under the impression that's where the real, devastating trash talk occurs.
nsacpi
Expects Yuge Games
The thing that makes this trade interesting to me (and somewhat difficult to analyze) is that there are three players involved (Gohara, Mallex and Shae) who could end up significantly better than their current valuations. Mallex never made a top 100 list as far as I know. Gohara has yet to make one as far as I know. So if you base valuation off of those lists (and I happen to think this is a good way to do so) then their value is not going to be so high.
However, I also think we are all entitled to add out own personal judgmental fudge factor when valuing players. We just have to be careful not to overdo it unless we have good reason to believe that we are bringing something to the table that others including professional scouts are missing. Gohara, Mallex and Shae are all players that I would fudge their values up relative to the conventional wisdom.
There are a couple reasons I'm not crazy about this trade. One is that we are giving up both Mallex and Shae in this trade. Second, Mallex and Shae have already reached the majors, while Gohara is very young and still some distance from the majors. I do think his upside is higher than Mallex and Shae. But that doesn't override the other considerations. It is just one aspect of this trade that has to be weighed along with the others.
However, I also think we are all entitled to add out own personal judgmental fudge factor when valuing players. We just have to be careful not to overdo it unless we have good reason to believe that we are bringing something to the table that others including professional scouts are missing. Gohara, Mallex and Shae are all players that I would fudge their values up relative to the conventional wisdom.
There are a couple reasons I'm not crazy about this trade. One is that we are giving up both Mallex and Shae in this trade. Second, Mallex and Shae have already reached the majors, while Gohara is very young and still some distance from the majors. I do think his upside is higher than Mallex and Shae. But that doesn't override the other considerations. It is just one aspect of this trade that has to be weighed along with the others.
Find a thread where I slung the first "you are an" attack. I will counter with 2 counter examples.
Because he could just as easily prove he can't be an everyday CF, and the Braves seem to have believed that was more likely. And they obviously like Gohara. So in 6 months, we could be sitting here with a worse asset in Mallex and a better asset in Gohara. Again, that's what differentiates successful FOs from poor ones. You have to evaluate and make decisions.
nsacpi
Expects Yuge Games
The Braves FO is obviously applying a pretty big positive fudge factor to Gohara. They might turn out to be right. But I tend to be suspicious when trades are based upon a big fudge factor.
Gohara is certainly riskier, but he also certainly has the higher ceiling. We probably feel like we're trading Mallex at near his peak value (after tearing up the minors and having limited success in the majors that you can project out) and probably feel like we're getting Gohara while his value is still suppressed.
Obviously either could falter or progress. But that's why you make the deal now. Because you like the way the values match up right now.
When has thethe ever called you anything approaching 'an idiot' or 'stupid'?
And this is kind of akin to someone excusing a 50-punch assault on a person's face by claiming they shoved you first.