Around the League - 2021 Szn

thethe said:
When I said that it was because I thought the contract was straighlined. Since learning it wasn't then I changed my stance. I'd still take him at 100% of his value as long as the D-Backs gave us one of their best prospects. I personally think Bumgarner has at least 6 WAR the next 3 seasons. Hold me to that claim.
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LOL, this is hilarious.

We hold you to all your stupid claims.

Remember when Allard was a TOR guy? Or Newk was about to reel off multiple 5 WAR seasons?

You are quite literally ALWAYS wrong...about everything.

AA will not be trading for MadBum...thank our lucky stars the GM is 100x smarter than you clown.
 
thewupk said:
Allard is now not doing well. Let's not get fooled by small sample sizes.
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"Now" is a tricky word, so I brought in the experts...



For example, if I post...

I'm a lunch now.

If you read this post a few hours/ weeks/months later, I may or may not be at lunch "now".

Allard was doing well when I posted that, but things have gone south "now"
 
msstate7 said:
I'm a lunch now.
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Live look at msstate7 currently:

Screen-Shot-2020-03-30-at-1.11.13-PM.jpg
 
thethe said:
D-Backs would have to pay some of his salary of course. Nobody wants all of that.
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Slow down long enough to think this through. You're arguing that you're looking to fill a #3/#4 SP role with an average-ish player that you'd have to give up significant prospect capital for to get them to pay down his salary to make him next season's version of Smyly - a veteran mid-rotation starter.

Smyly, Danny Duffy, Alex Cobb, David Price, Michel Pineda, Anthony DeSclafani, Alex Wood, and Zack Greinke will all be free-agents this winter, All of those guys are likely going to get 1 or 2 year deals in the $8-$12 million range. You shouldn't need to look any further than their 2021 xFIPs to understand how stupid giving up legitimate prospects for MadBum rather than just using the money you're paying Smyly and KEEPING those prospects would be.

MadBum xFIP - 4.65

Smyly - 4.45
Duffy - 4.24
Cobb - 3.18
Price - 4.12
Pineda - 4.22
DeSclafani - 3.96
Wood - 3.57
Greinke - 4.18

Even if any or all of those guys get multiple year deals they won't be for more money than Bumgarner is owed, and (much more importantly) signing one of them will cost you exactly zero prospects. MadBum is the equivalent of Jaime Garcia when the Braves traded him to the Twins. The Twins gave up Ynoa for him. Does anyone actually have to wonder why the Twins have no homegrown pitching help when they do things like that?
 
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clvclv said:
Slow down long enough to think this through. You're arguing that you're looking to fill a #3/#4 SP role with an average-ish player that you'd have to give up significant prospect capital for to get them to pay down his salary to make him next season's version of Smyly - a veteran mid-rotation starter.

Smyly, Danny Duffy, Alex Cobb, David Price, Michel Pineda, Anthony DeSclafani, Alex Wood, and Zack Greinke will all be free-agents this winter, All of those guys are likely going to get 1 year deals in the $8-$12 million range. You shouldn't need to look any further than their 2021 xFIPs to understand how stupid giving up legitimate prospects for MadBum rather than just using the money you're paying Smyly and KEEPING those prospects would be.

MadBum xFIP - 4.65

Smyly - 4.45
Duffy - 4.24
Cobb - 3.18
Price - 4.12
Pineda - 4.22
DeSclafani - 3.96
Wood - 3.57
Greinke - 4.18

Even if any or all of those guys get multiple year deals they won't be for more money than Bumgarner is owed, and (much more importantly) signing one of them will cost you exactly zero prospects. MadBum is the equivalent of Jaime Garcia when the Braves traded him to the Twins. The Twins gave up Ynoa for him. Does anyone actually have to wonder why the Twins have no homegrown pitching help when they do things like that?
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I'm actually for just taking his whole contract and letting the D-backs pay us for it with a prospect.

But if we want to make it even have them pay 15-20M and you are probably at his exact surplus value. This then becomes the equivalent of a FA market signing.

I believe that Bumgarner has a lot more left in the tank and putting him onto one of the best teams in the league would do him well.

Maybe he loves Arizona but does he want to pitch for a 100 loss team much longer?
 
thethe said:
I'm actually for just taking his whole contract and letting the D-backs pay us for it with a prospect.

But if we want to make it even have them pay 15-20M and you are probably at his exact surplus value. This then becomes the equivalent of a FA market signing.

I believe that Bumgarner has a lot more left in the tank and putting him onto one of the best teams in the league would do him well.

Maybe he loves Arizona but does he want to pitch for a 100 loss team much longer?
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Then you're simply ignoring the stats - every one of those guys I listed has been a better Pitcher than Bumgarner this season. There's no reason for those that understand the numbers far better than I do to argue with you - you're still upset that Gattis isn't the Braves' LF.
 
clvclv said:
Then you're simply ignoring the stats - every one of those guys I listed has been a better Pitcher than Bumgarner this season. There's no reason for those that understand the numbers far better than I do to argue with you - you're still upset that Gattis isn't the Braves' LF.
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Cool - Going that route despite me being courteous to you.

Ah well.
 
thewupk said:
Allard is now not doing well. Let's not get fooled by small sample sizes.
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I did a comparison out of curiosity yesterday and it is spooky how close Allard's and Smyly's statistical profiles are this season. Still a ways to go, so we will have to wait until the end of the season to see if that holds. For the record, I was fine with Allard-for-Martin and would be again.
 
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50PoundHead said:
I did a comparison out of curiosity yesterday and it is spooky how close Allard's and Smyly's statistical profile is this season. Still a ways to go, so we will have to wait until the end of the season to see if that holds. For the record, I was fine with Allard-for-Martin and would be again.
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His fastball velocity is where it needs to be but he is just getting crushed.

His age will help him in that he will get a bunch more chances but it seems that guys just see the ball real well out of his hand.
 
thethe said:
His fastball velocity is where it needs to be but he is just getting crushed.

His age will help him in that he will get a bunch more chances but it seems that guys just see the ball real well out of his hand.
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If anyone wants to give their kid a decent chance at catching a home run ball, find out when Allard or Smyly are pitching and buy seats in the OF stands.
 
thethe said:
Cool - Going that route despite me being courteous to you.

Ah well.
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Not trying to make it personal - you're simply ignoring the numbers. That's not a good idea.

Seriously - did you actually look at the xFIP numbers I posted or just quote and reply? Every single Pitcher on that list has been better than Bumgarner this season - in most cases SIGNIFICANTLY BETTER. Everybody can rag on Smyly all they like - even he has been better than Bumgarner in 2021.
 
clvclv said:
Not trying to make it personal - you're simply ignoring the numbers. That's not a good idea.

Seriously - did you actually look at the xFIP numbers I posted or just quote and reply? Every single Pitcher on that list has been better than Bumgarner this season - in most cases SIGNIFICANTLY BETTER. Everybody can rag on Smyly all they like - even he has been better than Bumgarner in 2021.
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That is if you are using xFIP which I feel isn't great because you shouldn't normalize a home run rate. Some guys are naturally more prone to give up a homer.

If you look at xwOBA you'll see that Bumgarner has actually had a much better season than a few of those guys and the others are within the range where the difference is negligible. I would argue that you aren't ignoring the numbers. You just look at the wrong ones and hopefully not looking at the ones specifically to make a point.

See, you can do something like that without a snarky remark.
 
Carp said:
Price is at 14 million since the Red Sox are giving the Dodgers 16 million. Not sure you're gonna find a starter in FA cheaper than that who can give you what Price likely can.
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A one year 14m commitment to David Price might be in character for Alex. Seems slightly high it 1 year? Maybe.

Didn't realize it was that low a commitment, though he's not going deep in games at this point.

Not too different from Hamels, or Smyly. I think Morton is better than that group though.
 
Morton should be a guarantee to re-sign. Hope he enjoyed being back in Atlanta on a winning team.

I find it hard to believe that Price at his age with his injury history would be a good bet at all unless we are talking about sub 8 million a year.
 
msstate7 said:
No way as a Mississippian would I have that green stuff, fat free milk, and only 1 roll. That meal won't even give me the energy to go catch covid
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Can't say the lunch ladies ever gave me a tomato or whatever those green things are. Cucumber I guess.

The meat dish also not something I've been served. Is that some kind of Mexican?
 
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