Lets get a poll on this things to get a feel of where we stand.

Based on today, no.

Based on the team's performance this year, probably.

But don't let Wren off the hook.
 
Needs an over haul in my opinion. From Schuerlholtz all the way down to the bench coach. Needs to get rid of the old regime totally. Pull away all the pull that bobby has and cut ties with 90's 14 straight division champs personnel. You can still honor them and not give them jobs in the front office. Franchise needs a new ID.
 
Don't think people really appreciate what they have until it's gone.

To change the identity of this organization because of a slightly above average season after having 3 out of 4 successful seasons is crazy...

We've been one of the top 5 franchises in baseball the last 2.5 decades and people want us to change... unreal.
 
Whether anyone gets fired or not, one thing that needs to change is that there needs to be a renewed emphasis on building up the farm system to the level it was at in the 90s and early 2000s.

IMO, Frank Wren has to answer for the dead money the team has as well as the limited bench the team has. Fredi's managerial decisions will probably cost this team the wild card. It's a lot easier to fire someone when they haven't won more games than any other manager since 2011 though.
 
Firing the manager isn't going to make the hitters we have good. The overall construction of the team is poor. It's just not a fun team to watch. Give Fredi better players and I'm sure he'll get better results.
 
To put it short and sweet.

There's bigger problems on this team than just the manager.

The team is way too flawed, mainly the lineup, 3 good hitters, one above average hitter in Gattis, TLS is ok, CF/3B/SS arent great hitters.

That lies on the FO/Wren, not Fredi.

I dont think firing Fredi makes a world of difference.
 
A lot of the failures on this team I don't think you can blame Fredi for. As a manager, he is far from perfect. However, you won't find a perfect manager anywhere. I think he'll stay at least another year, but he will have a warmer seat in 2015. The one coach who should be in trouble is Greg Walker. This team's approach at the plate is perhaps the worst in baseball. From swinging at the first pitch so often, to Simmons "swing hard in case you hit it" mentality. A change is certainly needed there.

Another problem is how this team is constructed, backing up what Matt said. Frank Wren will have his work cut out for him after the season. I would find a trade partner for Chris Johnson and, as hard as it may be, deal B.J. Upton. As much as I like Gattis, he's an A.L. type of player. Dangle him out to a team in that league. Need to see if a "true" leadoff hitter can be found. Perhaps find a way to work Peraza into things next year.

I think Wren is on a hotter seat than Gonzalez.
 
It all starts at the top. To reiterate what CC and Matt have said.

Wren is the architect of this whole thing. He above anyone else needs to be held accountable.
 
The problem is that Wren constructed a roster that has several sub-.300 OBP starting position players, and Fredi continues to pencil in some of them at the top of lineup.

The guys that can't avoid making outs need to be purged from the roster, regardless of how "athletic" or "dynamic" they are (which is why BJ got the deal he did). The only .300 OBP type player this lineup can afford to use is Simmons because of his defense. Guys like BJ, CJ, Bonifacio, and CB (if Gattis is traded) quite simply can NOT be starters next season or we are going to see exactly the same type of offense. Wren needs to find upgrades at 3B and CF, and I'm assuming some combination of Goss, Terdo, and Peraza will be in that mix. It's really a shame Peraza was injured this year and lost that development time.

Given the lack of available funds for upgrades, I wouldn't be at all surprised to see the following lineup opening day 2015:

C - Gattis

1B - Freeman

2B - TLS

SS - Simmons

3B - Goss

LF - Terdo

CF - Heyward

RF - JUp

with Peraza in AAA learning CF and 3B to replace Goss or Terdo at some point.
 
Wren's poor construction of the team has nothing to do with the numerous boneheaded decisions Fredi makes in late game and with his lineup in general.

If we miss the playoffs, I'd say give Wren one more year. I can't imagine Fredi will be fired, so I'll say one more year for him, too. However, changes need to be made. Hitting coach is a good place to start.
 
I wonder how Tigers fans feel about Dave Dombrowski.

Has been the GM for 12 years, no World Series rings, 2 World Series defeats, and a bunch of playoff exits. That's after having only 2 playoff appearances in 20 years before he took over as GM. Frank Wren has been GM for 6.5 seasons, we've been to the playoffs 3 times. Our team has been in the hunt for the playoffs the last 4 years as a mid market payroll team, and the Tigers have been in the Top 5 in MLB payroll for almost a decade.

It's absolutely AMAZING that people want to fire the people who have run our organization and turned it into one of the most respected and well oiled machines in professional sports.
 
I don't want to fire Wren, but if we take another step backward next year, with the amount of young talent we have, we are not moving forward, and therefore, we are moving in the wrong direction.
 
bravesnumberone said:
I don't want to fire Wren, but if we take another step backward next year, with the amount of young talent we have, we are not moving forward, and therefore, we are moving in the wrong direction.
Click to expand...

Kenny Williams has still been in charge of the White Sox since 2005 World Series, and they've not done much of anything.

Mike Scioscia has been managing the Angels since 2002, with huge payrolls and no rings to show for it. Rays have had a lot of young talent and have not moved forward or made it out of the first round since 2008.

We don't have the money the Yankees, Dodgers, Red Sox, Phillies do. Frank Wren has done an exceptional job given the resources he's been given. One can only imagine how much more money we'd have if we weren't stuck with this awful TV deal for the next 10 years.
 
I agree on Wren. I really shouldn't say give him one more year because I also think he's done the best he can with what he's been given. Still, there are areas he can improve in this offseason, and I hope he now understands that what we have from an offensive standpoint is not sustainable.

Also I'm not going to bitch about anything Tampa Bay does, given their payroll situation.

A down year is a down year. Next year, the heat needs to be turned up somewhere considerably. The window of time to win is now through the next couple of years.
 
Well consider this: Gattis makes pennies to what McCann made his final year here and has given about as good of production you're going to get offensively.

Santana has been helpful for us, but he cost so much money that could've been used to get a real bat this summer.

It's unfortunate for Frank that Dan Uggla and BJ Upton the last 2 years have had historic, all-time disastrous offensive seasons, because both were actually decent offensive contributors with their respective clubs, and while Dan did produce for us for a while, he and BJ have been godly awful. If BJ even performed 20-30% better than what he's doing now, it wouldn't look as BAD.

When we traded for Uggla it was a great deal because he was one of the best offensive 2B in the league but his drop off was extreme.

BJ hit 28 and 23 homers the 2 years before he came here... if he even got to 15-20 that would've been acceptable.

Frank has done a fine job, as has Fredi (yawn bashing). There is room for improvement from both. The notion that the 2012 and 2013 teams won 90+ games in spite of Fredi is stupid.
 
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