Tim Hudson signs with Giants

PawPawMaxwell said:
Serious question or two: Was Wren not quoted early in the off season as "Look for a TOR starter" and has now downgraded his posture to a veteran starter?

And seriously looking for responses: Why did Wren even make an offer to LaTroy Hawkins even tho the offer was not that great? Dont we have enough set up guys.
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I think Wren is suffering from sticker shock. Given the inflation in the market for pitchers, I think making a qualifying offer to Hudson would have been the right move. But that's with the benefit of hindsight.

The LaTroy Hawkins offer reflects the hierarchy's belief that a vet is need out there to keep the young uns in line. See Livan, Durbin, Proctor, etc. Not all of them have been bad. Wagner and Saito did very well for us. Hawkins is still a good pitcher. I just don't understand how he would be an improvement over the other righties we have. At the major league level we already have Kimbrel, Walden, Carpenter, Gearrin, Varvaro. In AAA, we are going to have a bunch of right-handed arms. There is a need imo for another lefty in the pen, but not another righty.
 
KeithLockhart said:
Seasoned, fresh, or stretched out, you can't go wrong with some good Wood.

Then you look at the great performances from young pitchers like Kris Medlen and Julio Teheran. :Alone:
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Mike Minor. What separated the good from the bad was not youth versus experience. My point is you want good players period. A good young player is better than a washed up vet. But a quality vet with a reasonable price tag could help the team. Imo Halladay and Santana fit in the washed up group. I don't think they would be an improvement over what we already have.
 
We made an offer to LaTroy?

Didn't see that. I'd say we're about 10 years too late. That'd be like offering Guillermo Mota an offer or Arthur Rhodes now.
 
nsacpi said:
Mike Minor. What separated the good from the bad was not youth versus experience. My point is you want good players period. A good young player is better than a washed up vet. But a quality vet with a reasonable price tag could help the team. Imo Halladay and Santana fit in the washed up group. I don't think they would be an improvement over what we already have.
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I agree almost 100%.

I'd still take a flyer on Halladay more than Santana. Santana because his elbow and shoulder problems. Halladay hasn't had any elbow, just shoulder problems in recent history.

Sign Doc to a low offer if possible, and if he absolutely sucks during spring you can cut him. Oakland has always taken risks like this, we're not as cheap as Oakland is but I don't see the harm in trying. If Doc is anywhere near close to what he was 2-3 years ago, you know you'll have a solid innings eater and you could rest him throughout the year with the young depth we have.
 
nsacpi said:
I think Wren is suffering from sticker shock. Given the inflation in the market for pitchers, I think making a qualifying offer to Hudson would have been the right move. But that's with the benefit of hindsight.

The LaTroy Hawkins offer reflects the hierarchy's belief that a vet is need out there to keep the young uns in line. See Livan, Durbin, Proctor, etc. Not all of them have been bad. Wagner and Saito did very well for us. Hawkins is still a good pitcher. I just don't understand how he would be an improvement over the other righties we have. At the major league level we already have Kimbrel, Walden, Carpenter, Gearrin, Varvaro. In AAA, we are going to have a bunch of right-handed arms. There is a need imo for another lefty in the pen, but not another righty.
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Wren has absolutely too much money available to be worried about sticker shock. Hudson was not what or who he referred to early on. And I disagree with your assessment about the vet needed in the pen. We didnt have one last year and wound up with the best pen in baseball.

Gammons made a statement last nite on MLB Tonite: "Closers are now considered fungible to the point we will not see another Papelbon 14M/4 year deal.

Is it possible that Kimbrel is on the table for trade therefore requiring another pen arm???
 
PawPawMaxwell said:
Wren has absolutely too much money available to be worried about sticker shock. Hudson was not what or who he referred to early on. And I disagree with your assessment about the vet needed in the pen. We didnt have one last year and wound up with the best pen in baseball.

Gammons made a statement last nite on MLB Tonite: "Closers are now considered fungible to the point we will not see another Papelbon 14M/4 year deal.

Is it possible that Kimbrel is on the table for trade therefore requiring another pen arm???
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Kimbrel's trade value is at an all-time high right now.

I think Wren is listening, but I doubt he'll make a trade unless he's absolutely blown away.
 
PawPawMaxwell said:
Wren has absolutely too much money available to be worried about sticker shock. Hudson was not what or who he referred to early on. And I disagree with your assessment about the vet needed in the pen. We didnt have one last year and wound up with the best pen in baseball.

Gammons made a statement last nite on MLB Tonite: "Closers are now considered fungible to the point we will not see another Papelbon 14M/4 year deal.

Is it possible that Kimbrel is on the table for trade therefore requiring another pen arm???
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I don't think we need a vet in the pen. I said the hierarchy seems to have that belief.
 
nsacpi said:
I don't think we need a vet in the pen. I said the hierarchy seems to have that belief.
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I understand but the heirarchy didnt need that vet last year. Dont see why they would feel different this coming year.

Another thing to consider, since the end of season, Braves have incurred a 372M debt. Beancounters will have a different perspective on that than will Wren.
 
nsacpi said:
I don't think the new stadium and the LaTroy Hawkins offer were related.
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It may be related if one of the current set up guys is projected to move to closer and ergo, another setup guy needs to be brought in.

You're one of the big payroll guys here, so where does the payroll project to as the roster stands right now?
 
PawPawMaxwell said:
It may be related if one of the current set up guys is projected to move to closer and ergo, another setup guy needs to be brought in.

You're one of the big payroll guys here, so where does the payroll project to as the roster stands right now?
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We're at about $83M.
 
nsacpi said:
We're at about $83M.
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And all we really need is a couple bench guys IIRC. New TV money means we could have as much as 25-30M to spend if IIRC.

So what happens next. If all we are in on at this point is a lowball to Hudson and Hawkins.

BTW. I missed it (just caugt the tail end) but Hot Stove will replay at about 12:30, Richard Justice apparently had lengthy comment about Braves.
 
PawPawMaxwell said:
And all we really need is a couple bench guys IIRC. New TV money means we could have as much as 25-30M to spend if IIRC.

So what happens next. If all we are in on at this point is a lowball to Hudson and Hawkins.

BTW. I missed it (just caugt the tail end) but Hot Stove will replay at about 12:30, Richard Justice apparently had lengthy comment about Braves.
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I think we'll make a significant expenditure in one of three places:

1) Catcher by bringing back McCann

2) A starting pitcher. Maybe someone like Lohse via trade.

3) Second base. Howie Kendrick makes the most sent to me.

And some smaller expenditures, such as another lefty for the pen.

My favorite outside-the-box scenario for this off-season involves re-signing McCann and using Gattis as a trade chip with an American League team to upgrade the rotation or second.
 
nsacpi said:
I think we'll make a significant expenditure in one of three places:

1) Catcher by bringing back McCann

2) A starting pitcher. Maybe someone like Lohse via trade.

3) Second base. Howie Kendrick makes the most sent to me.

And some smaller expenditures, such as another lefty for the pen.

My favorite out-side-the-box scenario for this off-season involves re-signing McCann and using Gattis as a trade chip with an American League team to upgrade the rotation or second.
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You may well be the only guy in America who still thinks there is a CHANCE McCann comes back.
Who exactly do we have to trade for Lohse? Prospects? Doubt the Brewers have as much value in them as you.
Makes sense or not, add Kendricks contract on to whatever we would have to eat of Ugglas and it makes even less sense.
If we get that pitcher you want (Lohse or other) then why not put Wood back in the pen? Then there is OFlay
 
PawPawMaxwell said:
You may well be the only guy in America who still thinks there is a CHANCE McCann comes back.
Who exactly do we have to trade for Lohse? Prospects? Doubt the Brewers have as much value in them as you.
Makes sense or not, add Kendricks contract on to whatever we would have to eat of Ugglas and it makes even less sense.
If we get that pitcher you want (Lohse or other) then why not put Wood back in the pen? Then there is OFlay
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What do we have to trade for Lohse or some similar pitcher? If Gattis is our new starting catcher, there really isn't much need for Bethancourt. We also have a lot of good but not great right-handed pitching who will be in AAA (Hale, Martin, Schlosser, Northcraft, relievers like Simmons, Jaime, Harper, Lamm). We also can move one of Salcedo/Kubitza. Those are areas we have a bit of a surplus.

I agree if we get a starting pitcher we can move Wood to the pen, obviating the need for a lefty reliever.
 
nsacpi said:
What do we have to trade for Lohse or some similar pitcher? If Gattis is our new starting catcher, there really isn't much need for Bethancourt. We also have a lot of good but not great right-handed pitching who will be in AAA (Hale, Martin, Schlosser, Northcraft, relievers like Simmons, Jaime, Harper, Lamm). We also can move one of Salcedo/Kubitza. Those are areas we have a bit of a surplus.

I agree if we get a starting pitcher we can move Wood to the pen, obviating the need for a lefty reliever.
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Bethancourt hasnt shown he can hit as of yet. Lots of those guys available. Besides he will probably have more value to us in 2015. I bet you that even the Brewers have AA and AAA pitching as good as ours. Disagree that Salcedo and Kubitza are surplus until CJs future is determined.
 
The Braves would not trade Bethancourt for Kyle Lohse -- that is a gross undervaluation. Lohse is 35 and is due $22 million over the next two years. Try fringe prospect(s).
 
Hawk said:
The Braves would not trade Bethancourt for Kyle Lohse -- that is a gross undervaluation. Lohse is 35 and is due $22 million over the next two years. Try fringe prospect(s).
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Interesting that we have two very different takes on whether Bethancourt would net Lohse.
 
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