Viz and Teheran listed as top trade candidates

Enscheff said:
Albies and Swanson both just had a great game the first time they played together last night. Maybe they are both ready to take over at SS and 2B next year with a full 3 months together in AA.

Maybe the Braves sign Cespedes for 5/110 to take over in LF.

Maybe they sign Desmond for 4/70 to play 3B.

Maybe they sign Jason Castro for 3/30 to platoon with Flowers.

Maybe Norris keeps being a ~4.00 ERA guy and they resign him for 2/25 with a 3rd year option to fill the #4 slot in the rotation.

Maybe the Braves run out a lineup consisting of Castro/Flowers, Freeman, Albies, Swanson, Desmond, Cespedes, Mallex and Inciarte/Markakis, with a rotation of Teheran, Wisler, Folty, Norris and a young guy, and a bench with d'Arnaud, Jace and Frenchy on it.

If all that happens the Braves should keep Teheran and try to get better starting next year. That team can push for .500 in 2017, and is young enough that it can be even better in 2018.

If they are not willing to fully commit to a plan like that, then they MUST capitalize on Teheran's sky-high trade value and get some premium hitting prospects into the organization. t all depends on the goals for 2017, and they must not try to straddle the compete/rebuild line.
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That plan for 2017 is ok to me, but it still leaves us without big-time future bats. If Cespedes and Desmond start to fall off, how is that team going to get better over the next couple years? I'd rather roll with the young pieces we can potentially get in a Teheran deal.
 
Enscheff said:
Albies and Swanson both just had a great game the first time they played together last night. Maybe they are both ready to take over at SS and 2B next year with a full 3 months together in AA.

Maybe the Braves sign Cespedes for 5/110 to take over in LF.

Maybe they sign Desmond for 4/70 to play 3B.

Maybe they sign Jason Castro for 3/30 to platoon with Flowers.

Maybe Norris keeps being a ~4.00 ERA guy and they resign him for 2/25 with a 3rd year option to fill the #4 slot in the rotation.

Maybe the Braves run out a lineup consisting of Castro/Flowers, Freeman, Albies, Swanson, Desmond, Cespedes, Mallex and Inciarte/Markakis, with a rotation of Teheran, Wisler, Folty, Norris and a young guy, and a bench with d'Arnaud, Jace and Frenchy on it.

If all that happens the Braves should keep Teheran and try to get better starting next year. That team can push for .500 in 2017, and is young enough that it can be even better in 2018.

If they are not willing to fully commit to a plan like that, then they MUST capitalize on Teheran's sky-high trade value and get some premium hitting prospects into the organization. t all depends on the goals for 2017, and they must not try to straddle the compete/rebuild line.
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I would even say that trying to compete next year is rushing the rebuild. We aren't ready for that, unless you spend a ton of money on 30+ year olds that will hurt us in a couple years. I know everyone hates watching this product, but I think we are better off staying patient and accumulating talent. Going for it next year does nothing but hurt long term.
 
smootness said:
We have very good pitching talent in the pipeline. Yes, Teheran is the only proven guy, so it would sting to lose him. But it could definitely be worth it. I think that's all anybody is saying.

What if we don't trade him for Benintendi/Devers, they end up being studs, and Teheran blows his elbow out? Hypotheticals are worthless.
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So does the one so many keep using that Julio's going to regress to become a #4 SP just before his arm falls off fit into this category?
 
clvclv said:
So does the one so many keep using that Julio's going to regress to become a #4 SP just before his arm falls off fit into this category?
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Absolutely...did you read the sentence just before the one you bolded? One side can say, 'What if Teheran is an ace for 10 years and the guys we trade him for are busts?' and the other side can say, 'What if Teheran sucks starting next year and we miss out on 2 HOF level talents?'

My point is that back-and-forth gets us nowhere. It's pointless because anything is possible. You make your best guess based on the odds you assign to certain outcomes.

I am leaning more toward trading Teheran (assuming a very good haul of bat(s)) even though I think he has a pretty good chance to be a very good pitcher for the next several years.
 
smootness said:
That plan for 2017 is ok to me, but it still leaves us without big-time future bats. If Cespedes and Desmond start to fall off, how is that team going to get better over the next couple years? I'd rather roll with the young pieces we can potentially get in a Teheran deal.
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When Ces falls off in 2-3 years, Markakis will be gone and another player from the system can either be promoted or another guy acquired. FA will almost always involve having a bad player making a lot of money in the last 1-2 years of a deal, but that's the price you pay for instant improvement.

I always liken the current Braves to the 2008-2010 Nationals. That team was terrible and won 59, 59 and 69 games those 3 years. They signed 32 year old Jayson Werth the next offseason to a massive (at the time) 7/126 deal. They weren't going to be ready to truly compete even with Werth, but him plus some young guys like Desmond and Zimmerman got them to 80 wins in 2011. Then in 2012 they took off and won 98 games. They are now arguably the model franchise of the NL East.

The Braves are not going to magically go from 60 wins to 90 wins in a single offseason, no matter how perfectly they time things. At some point they are going to have to improve to an 80 win team, and then improve to a 90 win team. They have the resources this offseason to make that first jump to 80 wins, and keeping Teheran is the first step in making that jump.
 
Enscheff said:
When Ces falls off in 2-3 years, Markakis will be gone and another player from the system can either be promoted or another guy acquired. FA will almost always involve having a bad player making a lot of money in the last 1-2 years of a deal, but that's the price you pay for instant improvement.

I always liken the current Braves to the 2008-2010 Nationals. That team was terrible and won 59, 59 and 69 games those 3 years. They signed 32 year old Jayson Werth the next offseason to a massive (at the time) 7/126 deal. They weren't going to be ready to truly compete even with Werth, but him plus some young guys like Desmond and Zimmerman got them to 80 wins in 2011. Then in 2012 they took off and won 98 games. They are now arguably the model franchise of the NL East.

The Braves are not going to magically go from 60 wins to 90 wins in a single offseason, no matter how perfectly they time things. At some point they are going to have to improve to an 80 win team, and then improve to a 90 win team. They have the resources this offseason to make that first jump to 80 wins, and keeping Teheran is the first step in making that jump.
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Werth played 81 games in 2012. I'm not going to credit his signing with their team's sudden surge. Yes, we will likely jump to 80 wins before we jump to 90, but that's exactly why I'd rather not go sign several 30ish-year-old FAs. You do that when one move puts you over the top or when you're trying to make a sudden, big jump, not when you're trying to gradually build it.

If we did sign guys like Cespedes and Desmond, we might jump to 80 wins...but those guys are not the ones who would likely be the driving forces behind the ultimate jump to 90+ wins. So it would basically be an artificial temporary jump to 80 before the young guys matured enough to push us further. I don't think the two would be directly tied to each other. It's no coincidence that the Nationals jumped to 98 wins once Harper and Strasburg were playing full seasons. Having Werth didn't hurt, but that team would have been really, really good even if they'd never signed him.
 
Enscheff said:
When Ces falls off in 2-3 years, Markakis will be gone and another player from the system can either be promoted or another guy acquired. FA will almost always involve having a bad player making a lot of money in the last 1-2 years of a deal, but that's the price you pay for instant improvement.

I always liken the current Braves to the 2008-2010 Nationals. That team was terrible and won 59, 59 and 69 games those 3 years. They signed 32 year old Jayson Werth the next offseason to a massive (at the time) 7/126 deal. They weren't going to be ready to truly compete even with Werth, but him plus some young guys like Desmond and Zimmerman got them to 80 wins in 2011. Then in 2012 they took off and won 98 games. They are now arguably the model franchise of the NL East.

The Braves are not going to magically go from 60 wins to 90 wins in a single offseason, no matter how perfectly they time things. At some point they are going to have to improve to an 80 win team, and then improve to a 90 win team. They have the resources this offseason to make that first jump to 80 wins, and keeping Teheran is the first step in making that jump.
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I just would not buy a big ticket free agent with a long term deal until the team had already demonstrated it was a contender. If you are going to commit that much payroll, you must be confident that the first years of the deal are in playoff contention, else you've hamstrung the team's future to win 80 games.

Cespedes is 31 I think and has a lot of swing and miss. Since players seem to reverting to the old standards of longevity, that means you'd expect a pretty good fall off in the next two or three years.

I think the Braves will improve organically over the next couple of year through promotions and other assets acquired through trade. If I were the Braves, I'd be looking for Pendleton, Bream, Leibrandt, rather than Maddux, McGriff, Bonds, Galaragga. Need some veterans on reasonable deals who can still play and help the young guys.

When they are winning, that's when they should go spend money to get them over the top.

I think managing the payroll during this period in time is pretty crucial. No reason to be impatient now that you've chosen this strategy. See it through.
 
Are the Indians an option?
They have young of and top of guys at aa.

Going for it this yr so maybe they spend
 
Heard Mark DeRosa on MLBTV said this morning the rangers are interested in Viz and JT and have the prospects to get it done.

Who do they have that we want to move the needle sooner rather than later?
 
saw this quote from the Braves page on ESPN.com

From Jayson Stark
One exec who has talked with the Braves on the likelihood they'll move Julio Teheran: "They will -- if they get what they're looking for." And what are they looking for? "Better than the Shelby Miller deal."
 
Pugfan said:
saw this quote from the Braves page on ESPN.com

From Jayson Stark
One exec who has talked with the Braves on the likelihood they'll move Julio Teheran: "They will -- if they get what they're looking for." And what are they looking for? "Better than the Shelby Miller deal."
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And that's what everyone wanted to hear. Whew
 
I think that's the asking price for both Teheran and Vizcaino, which is fairly reasonable in a sellers market. Hopefully we can fer some division rivals bidding against each other. Teams don't want to be in the play in game.
 
With respect to free agents at the end of this season, I'd rather sign two guys like Prado/Turner/Freese on 2-3 year deals for less total AAV than Cespedes gets on a 5-6 year deal. It is a more diversified and less risky package because the money gets freed up as the guys coming up through the system (Wisler, Smith, Albies, Swanson) get more expensive and in need of extensions.
 
Gallo and Brinson would have to be involved from Texas. They have super high ceilings but bust potential also. I still hope that Boston or Houston get involved. Moncada and air Bregman are game changing type of talents.
 
Hudson2 said:
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2016/...s.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=facebook

So we are targeting pitching for Teheran?? Wth
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If you click on the link it doesn't say we are targeting pitching for Teheran. Its a tweet from DOB from 3 days ago, just saying that the Braves are currently looking for starting options both in and outside the organization. Also says they have talked trades for possible starters signed beyond this season... but has nothing to do with Teheran.
 
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