What was the stupidest thing the three Johns did?

smootness said:
I wasn't talking about race. But when people talk about improving an area of a city, they generally ultimately mean changing demographics (I'm talking mostly economically here).
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What you describe is still gentrification. The word has a racial connotation, but it really just means replacing one urban demographic with another (more wealthy) one. It is also not the only recipe to restoring blighted urban areas, but it's hard to argue with its effectiveness.

With regard to the cities you mentioned, the only one I know much about is Pittsburgh...and they moved their stadium from a bad part of the city to a better location that they could more easily invest in...so pretty much exactly what the Braves are doing. People are just upset because it's not going to be located downtown, but it won't be far away, either.
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Make no mistake, Cobb County is not the North Shore of Pittsburgh.

Maybe we can walk (underneath the interstate) to Cumberland Mall and go to Costco and the Cheesecake Factory after the game.

It's a suburban hell, and the real estate investment potential there outside of the land the team already owns is minuscule.

As for the distance from downtown: in miles, sure. In actual travel time? It's easily 45 minutes to an hour away.

I still don't understand how anyone thinks the Braves can stay in the same location and improve it just by throwing in a few restaurants.
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To be frank, it doesn't appear that you are trying very hard.
 
The big money is moving north, up along the 400 corridor and all around that area. Businesses and the "city" center is shifting that way also. People weren't going to develop around Turner. There just isn't much to redevelop (not much charm of historical draw)

Turner is also too big IMO. I am glad that all seats will have a better feel at the new place.
 
smootness said:
You said fans seem to be ok with revenues increasing because they think it will be put back into the team, and said it as though you don't agree.

So I have to assume you're ok with revenues staying as they are.
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I just said that it's essentially the only reason most people have rubber-stamped the move. Nobody is raving about the location. Nobody is raving about the corporate village. Nobody is even talking about the design of the park.

They have been told that it will make the Braves more money, and more money means better players ... and winning. Right?

Do I think the payroll with go up? I do, I actually think the Braves have the capacity to go to ~$150MM over the next few years. Could they have done this at Turner? Almost certainly not in the same time frame.
 
Is there precedent for this actually working?

I've been to a lot of stadiums/arenas and I can't think of one that was located in the suburbs without mass transportation. I think the NFL has a couple in the burbs, but that is a totally different animal. FedEx Field in in the suburbs and it's awful and a reason why the Skins want to move.
 
smootness said:
I wasn't talking about race. But when people talk about improving an area of a city, they generally ultimately mean changing demographics (I'm talking mostly economically here).

With regard to the cities you mentioned, the only one I know much about is Pittsburgh...and they moved their stadium from a bad part of the city to a better location that they could more easily invest in...so pretty much exactly what the Braves are doing. People are just upset because it's not going to be located downtown, but it won't be far away, either.

I still don't understand how anyone thinks the Braves can stay in the same location and improve it just by throwing in a few restaurants.
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A better location that is still in Pittsburgh, no?

I understand that the new park will have an Atlanta address since it sits on unincorporated land, but it's not in Atlanta in any meaningful sense.

The kind of sprawl for which Atlanta is famous is bad for public health, the environment, and culture. The new stadium, instead of looking forward, reaches back at precisely the kind of thinking that created that sprawl.

I agree that the city has dropped the ball many times. I also emphatically agree with Hawk that the organization could have shown some vision, creativity, and leadership in the process instead of just making a very retrograde near-term cash grab. I see it as another downside of corporate ownership who obviously don't consider themselves stakeholders in the community.
 
Pittsburgh has a very public-spirited group of families that form its financial and social elite, something that has helped the city and its sports teams enormously. I've made some business trips there and for me it is the most underrated American city.
 
gilesfan said:
Is there precedent for this actually working?

I've been to a lot of stadiums/arenas and I can't think of one that was located in the suburbs without mass transportation. I think the NFL has a couple in the burbs, but that is a totally different animal. FedEx Field in in the suburbs and it's awful and a reason why the Skins want to move.
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I have no idea if you are familiar with the area or not...but I don't think "suburbs" applies here. And fwiw, they are moving closer to their fanbase.
 
Tapate50 said:
I have no idea if you are familiar with the area or not...but I don't think "suburbs" applies here. And fwiw, they are moving closer to their fanbase.
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What? Cobb County is the definition of suburbs. Just out of curiosity, I checked wiki to see what it says:

Cobb County is a suburban county located in the U.S. state of Georgia
 
Hawk said:
Yes, I understand the business logic in reducing capacity but the post I quoted intonated that the goal was to get more people to the stadium.

It isn't exactly.

It's all about cost control. 40K coveted seats? Perfect. Controllable and predictable (expensive) ticket prices.

I'll keep my $500 front row upper-deck behind the home dugout season tickets at Turner, thank you. I'll probably end up paying $500 to go to three games at SunTrust.

By the way, Turner Field has spectacular sightlines. Better than many of the smaller stadiums I've been to IMO.

Intimacy is just a keyword for waiting in line for concessions and bathrooms. People rave about AT&T Park, and it is gorgeous, but it's like a sardine can.
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reducing capacity has nothing to do with an intimate feeling or sightlines. it's simply about more revenue. if a team is selling 35,000 seats in a 40,000 seat stadium as opposed to a 50,000 seat stadium, there's just simply more of an opportunity to profit more on all levels.

once again the braves aren't doing this for the benefit of the fans. quite the opposite. now it will be even more expensive to get in the door than it was before. that's all it is.
 
gilesfan said:
What? Cobb County is the definition of suburbs. Just out of curiosity, I checked wiki to see what it says:

Cobb County is a suburban county located in the U.S. state of Georgia
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The 285 bypass is the loose term of Atlanta to everyone else that doesn't live in side the perimeter. A suburb to me (a state resident and frequent Atlanta visitor) means Lawrenceville, Roswell, Marietta, Alpharetta, etc...

Once you head into all that sprawl, it isn't decidedly suburban (yards, neighborhoods, etc..) in nature at all. Businesses, offices, high rises, etc.. all around. Basically you can't discern it from outer Atlanta by looks much at all. I think your idea of suburban may differ from what it actually is. Maybe mine does? I just know it isn't in a decidedly residential area at all, and I kinda figured that's what "suburban" mean to you. Or I interpreted it that way?

https://www.google.com/maps/place/A...2!3m1!1s0x88f5045d6993098d:0x66fede2f990b630b

I mean its a mile or two from the actual city limits. I think the general term suburbs is a bad connotation for where it actually is.
 
Hawk said:
They are moving closer to the segment of the fanbase which has demonstrated elevated and repeated spending habits ... an important distinction to make.
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Very true. Here is the map again.

heat-map_1.jpg
 
Hawk said:
Isn't it a little funny (race density -- red is white, blue is black):

1024px-Race_and_ethnicity_Atlanta.png
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I'm a little late to the party so I apologize if I do not understand the point you are making. Are you expecting the Braves to exhibit a moral obligation to the mass public or move their business to the area where people are actually purchasing their product?
 
is there any truth to the rumor that you won't be allowed to park at the stadium if you're not driving an SUV or something similar that gets terrible gas mileage?

we have our idiots governors up and down the east coast begging for permission for off shore drilling and this is precisely the kind of thing they're willing to mortgage our most beautiful natural resources for? i'm not entirely sure i can keep up being a supporter of this organization. if i hadn't been more into and lived it for decades it really wouldn't be a tough decision at all.
 
chipchildress said:
is there any truth to the rumor that you won't be allowed to park at the stadium if you're not driving an SUV or something similar that gets terrible gas mileage?

we have our idiots governors up and down the east coast begging for permission for off shore drilling and this is precisely the kind of thing they're willing to mortgage our most beautiful natural resources on? i'm not entirely sure i can keep up being a supporter of this organization. if i hadn't been more into and lived it for decades it really wouldn't be a tough decision at all.
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Governor just signed a hefty gas tax increase and repealed electric car tax credit. The coffers were empty when it came to infrastructure upgrades apparently. But all that is news to me and you seem to be WAY more plugged into this than I...so you tell me.
 
Hawk said:
Isn't it a little funny (race density -- red is white, blue is black):

1024px-Race_and_ethnicity_Atlanta.png
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is yellow asian?

now it gets back to the crux of the argument. this is 1950's white flight all over again, never mind the fact that young people are moving into city centers at record rates. this is one of the most short sighted move in the history of sports i might think. ownership is going to get their immediate payday they couldn't give two ****s about the fallout.
 
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