Eric Garner doesn't get justice

Tomahawking4life said:
A common trend I see in this thread is the cop haters like Z and sturg throwing out a lot of crap they hope will stick.

Z saying that plenty of unarmed people resist arrest and get killed every year, with no proof or numbers to back it up.

Sturg calling this murder when it's clearly not.

Why is this?
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Imagine this: Zito or sturg needed the cops at their homes. The cops were running late (traffic,other calls, cut backs etc) and something bad happened. Do you not think Zito and Sturg would come on here and talk **** about the cops and how long it took them to get there and that the cops should move faster?

**** yeah they would.
 
Tomahawking4life said:
A common trend I see in this thread is the cop haters like Z and sturg are throwing out a lot of crap they hope will stick.

Z saying that plenty of unarmed people resist arrest and get killed every year, with no proof or numbers to back it up.

Sturg calling this murder when it's clearly not.

Why is this?
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Sorry you quoted the second post I made on the topic where I forgot to put DOn't. tons of people resist arrest every year and DON'T get killed. Resisting arrest is NOT an excuse for deadly force.
 
Krgrecw said:
Imagine this: Zito or sturg needed the cops at their homes. The cops were running late (traffic,other calls, cut backs etc) and something bad happened. Do you not think Zito and Sturg would come on here and talk **** about the cops and how long it took them to get there and that the cops should move faster?

**** yeah they would.
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Imagine this, a cop shows up at your door your dog is barking and he shoots the dog, would you be pissed he shot your dog? **** yeah you would.

The difference between sturg and I and you is that we don't let police off the hook for everything and question their motives and methods, like we would any individual, when you stop questioning authority is when you lose your freedom
 
Krgrecw said:
How many jurors do the courts in NY use for murder cases? Does it have to be unanimous?
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Not for a grand jury. They needed like 12 of 18 to indict or something like that. As has been stated before. EXCEPT for cop cases, Grand juries almost always indict, in cop cases they almost never indict. See a trend?
 
Tomahawking4life said:
A common trend I see in this thread is the cop haters like Z and sturg are throwing out a lot of crap they hope will stick.

Z saying that plenty of unarmed people resist arrest and get killed every year, with no proof or numbers to back it up.

Sturg calling this murder when it's clearly not.

Why is this?
Click to expand...

Im am a retired officers daughter. Love the good hard working cops of America. Hate the terrible ones!!!!! This was homicide. The officer should have been indicted, given a fair trial, and then sentenced to a few years in prison. He used excessive force when Garner clearly told all of the officers that he could not breath 11 times. Force that was clearly banned.
 
zitothebrave said:
Sorry you quoted the second post I made on the topic where I forgot to put DOn't. tons of people resist arrest every year and DON'T get killed. Resisting arrest is NOT an excuse for deadly force.
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Ok, so you forgot to put don't. Well at least we're clear now. Knew you were smarter than that Z.

Now maybe Sturg typed manslaughter or negligent homocide, but his auto-correct changed it to murder? Yeah we'll go with that.
 
njc108 said:
Im am a retired officers daughter. Love the good hard working cops of America. Hate the terrible ones!!!!! This was homicide. The officer should have been indicted, given a fair trial, and then sentenced to a few years in prison. He used excessive force when Garner clearly told all of the officers that he could not breath 11 times. Force that was clearly banned.
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Not gonna say I disagree with any of this, but there is still a difference between homocide and murder.
 
Tomahawking4life said:
He killed him, he didn't murder him.

Don't go down the Sturg path.
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I think giving qualifying terms desensitizes us to killing people. TO me I view murder as an unlawful killing. I tihnk it keeps it clean. Manslaughter softens the sting of the name murder when in the broadest terms they're the same. The officer would never have been charged for murder as you have to prove intent and I don't think he intended on killing the guy, but to me illegally killing osmeone is murder even if the law doesn't view it that way.
 
Should've been charged with involuntary manslaughter, imo. Was that on the table? Haven't really followed the grand jury case.
 
zitothebrave said:
I think giving qualifying terms desensitizes us to killing people. TO me I view murder as an unlawful killing. I tihnk it keeps it clean. Manslaughter softens the sting of the name murder when in the broadest terms they're the same. The officer would never have been charged for murder as you have to prove intent and I don't think he intended on killing the guy, but to me illegally killing osmeone is murder even if the law doesn't view it that way.
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So screw definitions, we'll just go with what you think or feel like it should mean.

However, both inside the legal world and outside of it, murder is considered a planned or intended killing. I don't see where the officer planned or intended to kill Garner.
 
Tomahawking4life said:
So screw definitions, we'll just go with what you think or feel like it should mean.

However, both inside the legal world and outside of it, murder is considered a planned or intended killing. I don't see where the officer planned or intended to kill Garner.
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One could argue that not complying with him saying he can't breath is intent.

And I think the issue if you didn't grasp it from my post is that using certain words desensitizes us. It's easy to kill "insurgents" "thugs" etc. It's hard to say we killed humans.
 
zitothebrave said:
One could argue that not complying with him saying he can't breath is intent.

And I think the issue if you didn't grasp it from my post is that using certain words desensitizes us. It's easy to kill "insurgents" "thugs" etc. It's hard to say we killed humans.
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But you are changing a different word there.
 
Tomahawking4life said:
However, both inside the legal world and outside of it, murder is considered a planned or intended killing. I don't see where the officer planned or intended to kill Garner.
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This is incorrect. Murder doesn't have always have to be premeditated, legally speaking;

The Model Penal Code considers unintentional killing to constitute murder when the conduct of the defendant manifests "extreme indifference to the value of human life".

It's called 'depraved-heart' murder for those interested in researching.
 
Hawk said:
This is incorrect. Murder doesn't have always have to be premeditated, legally speaking;

The Model Penal Code considers unintentional killing to constitute murder when the conduct of the defendant manifests "extreme indifference to the value of human life".

It's called 'depraved-heart' murder for those interested in researching.
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I didn't say it did have to be pre-meditated. That's where your first, second, an third degree murders come in.
But there would need to be intent to kill or cause serious bodily harm.
 
Guy is lying on the ground, says "I can't breathe." Cop keeps choking him. That is murder. That is "extreme indifference to the value of human life." Either the cop didn't know that not being able to breathe causes death, or he didn't give a ****.

But, cops and the system have ALWAYS been fair to blacks. So why not just always do what they say???

Surprised they didn't just sprinkle some crack on him. They were on camera, so that'd be difficult.
It would be interesting to see some poster's family members have horrifying things like this happen to them and their reactions. The fact that a cop can get away with this is terrifying and sad. And yet, no, we don't have a problem with power hungry, hothead cops. There are plenty of good ones, more good than bad. But they're a club, they defend the bad ones and cut them breaks when they do something terrible. Stuff is covered up. That's not ok.
 
I do feel like a dangerous precedent is about to be set with the whole "I can't breathe" thing. Sure it was legit in this case, but if I was a smart criminal, and I was resisting arrest, I'd start screaming " I can't breathe" as soon as the cops touched me.
 
Tomahawking4life said:
I didn't say it did have to be pre-meditated. That's where your first, second, an third degree murders come in.
But there would need to be intent to kill or cause serious bodily harm.
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You said, "however, both inside the legal world and outside of it, murder is considered a planned or intended killing..."

That is premeditation.

The variety of murder I am referring to, again, is perpetrated when the conduct of the defendant manifests extreme indifference to the value of human life.
 
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