GDT 10/31/21: Braves vs Astros - World Series Game 5

[chop2chip]

As NYC Brave pointed out, I think the decision to start Davidson was made above Snitker's pay grade and it was an odd move. What followed was a couple more odd moves, but that happens everywhere during the off-season. I think the decision on whether or not the pitcher hits can be defended on the situation, but having Minter attempt to bunt was really laughable. It's pretty clear Snitker wanted another inning out of him. I lay some of this at the feet of roster construction because I can't figure out why Terrance Gore is on the roster (now watch, he'll score from first base on an infield ground out and I'll be proven wrong) when an actual hitter (we may not have another one of those available) would make more sense. Bottom line is your initial analysis on Davidson stands. He really doesn't have a reliable plus pitch at this point in his career. That could change over time, but I wasn't expecting a gem last night.

I don't know if Smyly put a bag of burning dogsh*t on Snitker's or Anthopoulos' doorstep, but they've really changed his usage pattern starting post-All Star break. I would have started him (but had him on a short leash) last night. It just seems odd to me.

Considering Chavez/Smyly was so successful against the Dodgers (at Dodger stadium, no less), it’s really surprising they didn’t revisit that script. It probably would not have worked, but I find that easier to stomach than going with an untested rookie who has been out half the year.

 

[NYCBrave]

What do you not think was the best of all time about that team?

Nitpicky, but I believe the 1998 Yankees were considered a better version of that mid to late 90's yankees team. They won 114 games that year. In 1996 they had only won 92.

 

[chop2chip]

Nitpicky, but I believe the 1998 Yankees were considered a better version of that mid to late 90's yankees team. They won 114 games that year. In 1996 they had only won 92.

It’s a shame the 1998 World Series wasn’t Braves vs Yankees. Arguably the two best teams of the two best dynasties of the 90’s. It had the chance to be the best World Series matchups ever.

 

[thewupk]

What do you not think was the best of all time about that team?

Let me ask you. Why do you think they are the best team of all time?

 

[thewupk]

It’s a shame the 1998 World Series wasn’t Braves vs Yankees. Arguably the two best teams of the two best dynasties of the 90’s. It had the chance to be the best World Series matchups ever.

Agreed. The 98 Braves team was without a doubt the best the Braves ever had. They had 6 players with an fWAR of 4.8 or higher. SIX! Plus 3 more in the 3's.

Even the worst of the regular players (Klesko, Weiss, and Gerald Williams) put up high 2 WAR seasons. Lead all of baseball with 27 pitching WAR and 37.6 position player WAR.

That team was ****ing stacked.

 

[NYCBrave]

Agreed. The 98 Braves team was without a doubt the best the Braves ever had. They had 6 players with an fWAR of 4.8 or higher. SIX! Plus 3 more in the 3's.

Even the worst of the regular players (Klesko, Weiss, and Gerald Williams) put up high 2 WAR seasons. Lead all of baseball with 27 pitching WAR and 37.6 position player WAR.

That team was ****ing stacked.

I remember that NLCS against the Padres really stinging. Lost the first three games before losing in 6.

 

[thewupk]

I remember that NLCS against the Padres really stinging. Lost the first three games before losing in 6.

Yup. I was vaguely confident in that series though. Remembering the Braves had to come back from 3-1 to the Cards in the 96 NLCS.

 

[CyYoung31]

Kevin Brown was our daddy in the late 90’s.

 

[MadduxFanII]

Ozzie hasn't been very good offensively this entire postseason, but he's been able to beat out the occasional infield hit and shoot a couple singles against the shift, all while playing brilliant defense, so he's still been useful. But he's mostly just been an hour late on fastballs in the World Series, and the ability to say "yeah, but" is shrinking.

 

[thewupk]

Kevin Brown was our daddy in the late 90’s.

That may be true. But the Braves helped rob him of being a HOFer.

96 he lead the league in ERA and 4th in fWAR but Smoltz took the Cy Young that year. And well deserved too. 8.4 WAR is stout AF.

And in 98 Brown was easily the best pitcher in baseball. 2nd in ERA and 1st in fWAR at 9.6! But Glavine snuck in and won the Cy Young because he was the only 20 game winner in the NL. And he has had other great years too where he was denied.

AT 76.6 fWAR it's debatable whether he or Schilling are the best pitchers to not be in the HOF (besides Clemens of course but that's a different story). But if Brown had even won Cy Young his fate among voters may have ended up differently.

 

[chop2chip]

That may be true. But the Braves helped rob him of being a HOFer.

96 he lead the league in ERA and 4th in fWAR but Smoltz took the Cy Young that year. And well deserved too. 8.4 WAR is stout AF.

And in 98 Brown was easily the best pitcher in baseball. 2nd in ERA and 1st in fWAR at 9.6! But Glavine snuck in and won the Cy Young because he was the only 20 game winner in the NL. And he has had other great years too where he was denied.

AT 76.6 fWAR it's debatable whether he or Schilling are the best pitchers to not be in the HOF (besides Clemens of course but that's a different story). But if Brown had even won Cy Young his fate among voters may have ended up differently.

I didn’t realize he wasn’t a HOF. How is that possible?

WS winner, 200+ wins, excellent ERA, advanced stats love him. You would think he would check all the boxes.

Too bad he pitched for the Dodgers back when they were mediocre.

 

[CyYoung31]

That may be true. But the Braves helped rob him of being a HOFer.

96 he lead the league in ERA and 4th in fWAR but Smoltz took the Cy Young that year. And well deserved too. 8.4 WAR is stout AF.

And in 98 Brown was easily the best pitcher in baseball. 2nd in ERA and 1st in fWAR at 9.6! But Glavine snuck in and won the Cy Young because he was the only 20 game winner in the NL. And he has had other great years too where he was denied.

AT 76.6 fWAR it's debatable whether he or Schilling are the best pitchers to not be in the HOF (besides Clemens of course but that's a different story). But if Brown had even won Cy Young his fate among voters may have ended up differently.

He and Schilling are no doubt hall of famers, postseason awards be damned.

Schilling will probably never get in due to his outspoken political leanings.

 

[striker42]

He and Schilling are no doubt hall of famers, postseason awards be damned.

Schilling will probably never get in due to his outspoken political leanings.

The system for selecting players for the HOF is pretty messed up. There are guys there who have no business being there and others are inexplicably left out.

 

[bravesfanMatt]

He and Schilling are no doubt hall of famers, postseason awards be damned.

Schilling will probably never get in due to his outspoken political leanings.

Schilling not getting in because of his beliefs is what is wrong with sports at times. I don't care if he thinks the world is flat and Jesus was riding a t-rex 5000 years ago.. he didn't cheat or break any rules/laws.. let him in. Not voting for him because he said something you don't like is just dumb.

 

[NYCBrave]

Considering Chavez/Smyly was so successful against the Dodgers (at Dodger stadium, no less), it’s really surprising they didn’t revisit that script. It probably would not have worked, but I find that easier to stomach than going with an untested rookie who has been out half the year.

That's a very fair question and is something I was wondering as well. My only guess is that AA and the analytics team decided at some point that Smyly was not the right guy for any key situation in this World Series. He wasn't not he NLDS roster, and only pitched in that one game in the NLCS. I wonder if something that happened in his appearance in the Dodgers series led AA feel he would not be a good fit to use as a bulk guy in the World Series.

 

[thewupk]

He and Schilling are no doubt hall of famers, postseason awards be damned.

Schilling will probably never get in due to his outspoken political leanings.

I agree. Hopefully the vet committee gets them in at some point

 

[Tapate50]

He and Schilling are no doubt hall of famers, postseason awards be damned.

Schilling will probably never get in due to his outspoken political leanings.

I mean he'd have better luck being a Scientologist, but that shouldn't matter whatsoever.

Why can't we just let baseball, just be baseball.

 

[thethe]

I mean he'd have better luck being a Scientologist, but that shouldn't matter whatsoever.

Why can't we just let baseball, just be baseball.

We aren't allowed to have nice things that don't have uniform groupthink.

 

[MadduxFanII]

Among his many, many, many, many other sins, Schilling once wore a t-shirt calling for the lynching of reporters. That is, the group of people who vote on the Hall of Fame.

If I was running for city council, and I went around to voters saying, “Hey, hope you die a terrible, painful death! You deserve it and you’ll burn in hell once you do! Vote MFII!” I wouldn’t have much of a right to say that voters are being silly not to focus on my plan for zoning reform.

Now, I actually do think Schilling should be in the Hall, all of the above notwithstanding. But the fact that he isn’t is entirely his fault. The bar is really low here — Smoltz sailed in and he was never shy about his politics.

 

[bravesfanMatt]

Among his many, many, many, many other sins, Schilling once wore a t-shirt calling for the lynching of reporters. That is, the group of people who vote on the Hall of Fame.

If I was running for city council, and I went around to voters saying, “Hey, hope you die a terrible, painful death! You deserve it and you’ll burn in hell once you do! Vote MFII!” I wouldn’t have much of a right to say that voters are being silly not to focus on my plan for zoning reform.

Now, I actually do think Schilling should be in the Hall, all of the above notwithstanding. But the fact that he isn’t is entirely his fault. The bar is really low here — Smoltz sailed in and he was never shy about his politics.

Curt isn’t representative of the people voting for him. However, it is sort of dumb to make enemies of people who vote you in. Sort of like a pie judge loving your pie but hates the baker. Doesn’t seem like He cares though. So whatever. Dude was a work horse. I didn’t like the whole bloody sock narrative. Seems over dramatic.