Peraza debuts for Dodgers

auyushu said:
What would you consider #1 starter, cause there are pretty much more than 12 of those:

Price, Kershaw, Grienke, Felix, Sale, Scherzer, Cueto, Lester, Bumgardner, Wacha, DeGrom, Arrieta, Harvey, Wainwright, Sonny Gray, Gerrit Cole, Kluber.

I'd also put guys like Chris Archer, Keuchel, Lance Lynn, and Shelby Miller up there if they finish this season the way they've pitched so far. That's pretty much 20 #1 starters there

Wood is 27th in FIP and 33rd in WAR among pitchers from 2014-2015.
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Lester hasnt been one this year, but if you wanna go off past track records thats fine.

Need to see more from Wacha and Lynn isnt up there, he's a solid 2-3.

Thats more top guys than i thought tho, good post.
 
sturg33 said:
No I do like him. I drafted him in my dynasty fantasy baseball league.

But I don't like the cost at all to get him. Hate it actually. I also had no idea he had so many injury issues.

In the end, if he stays healthy - I think he can be a good player. But the cost of acquisition was outrageous. We won't need him till he's 32
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I just remember you complaining that we didn't offer him the 62 million contract in the offseason. I don't know. It seems like you valued him quite a bit back then and his injury history was well documented and publicized.

I could be wrong, but it's just a curious thing.
 
Heyward said:
Lester hasnt been one this year, but if you wanna go off past track records thats fine.

Need to see more from Wacha and Lynn isnt up there, he's a solid 2-3.
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Yeah, Wacha probably belongs on the second list with Shelby and Archer, but I think he'll end the year well.

I think you and I both are still stuck in the past on Lynn a little bit, I was surprised how well he's pitched the last two seasons. 2.74 ERA in 203 IP last year, and on pace for about the same in ERA and IP this year. I'd probably want to see another season like this from him, but he's pitched like a low end #1 the past two seasons.

As far as Lester goes, I consider 3.25 ERA and below pretty much #1 starter territory, so he's been borderline #1 this year and was an Ace last year for me(8th in WAR, 10th in ERA from 2014-2015)
 
auyushu said:
Yeah, Wacha probably belongs on the second list with Shelby and Archer, but I think he'll end the year well.

I think you and I both are still stuck in the past on Lynn a little bit, I was surprised how well he's pitched the last two seasons. 2.74 ERA in 203 IP last year, and on pace for about the same in ERA and IP this year. I'd probably want to see another season like this from him, but he's pitched like a low end #1 the past two seasons.

As far as Lester goes, I consider 3.25 ERA and below pretty much #1 starter territory, so he's been borderline #1 this year and was an Ace last year for me(8th in WAR, 10th in ERA from 2014-2015)
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I didnt realize how good Lynn has been this year, from an ERA prospective at least. Some people have different views on him but i can see the argument.

Didnt know Lester's ERA has lowered that much so i can respect that.
 
Heyward said:
I didnt realize how good Lynn has been this year, from an ERA prospective at least. Some people have different views on him but i can see the argument.
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Yeah, I was pretty surprised to see him 22nd in both WAR and FIP since the start of 2014, I was still thinking of him as a 3.50 ERA #3 starter guy.
 
chop2chip said:
I just remember you complaining that we didn't offer him the 62 million contract in the offseason. I don't know. It seems like you valued him quite a bit back then and his injury history was well documented and publicized.

I could be wrong, but it's just a curious thing.
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You know exactly what kind of thing it is.
 
Julio3000 said:
I'm content to see some results before judging the deal. . . but mentioning Olivera's yearly cost without factoring in the price of his acquisition strikes me as intellectually dishonest.
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It's not, though. His yearly cost isn't much, while also filling a big hole. This allows us to save money (he'll be making less than Chris Johnson was, and chances are he will be a good amount better) and fill holes elsewhere, perhaps with better pieces than we would've been able to if we had to sign a FA 3B.

I could say not mentioning that is intellectually dishonest, I suppose.
 
sturg33 said:
Can you send me anyone who is calling this trade a win for the Braves?

Olivera at $5.5M is fine. The issue is, he's not a prospect, so we're paying for two of those years before we really need them. So then we have to hope that he is productive at 32 onward, and he's already an injury nightmare.

Additionally - Olivera at $5.5M is a fine deal. But we paid Wood and Peraza too.
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I've posted stuff from Badler and a guy at FG who like the deal, but Badler especially.

I guess he's a Braves homer. Or we'll see a post from giles discrediting him.
 
smootness said:
Yes, he did. Because he's 33, posting an ERA of 3.75 and FIP of 4.21, and will cost $63 million over the next 3 years. And he was never an ace. San Diego is really stupid.

Arguing that Shields has more value than Wood is asinine.
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who argued that though?
 
zitothebrave said:
Wood has been one of the 40 best pitchers in baseball over the last 2 seasons. Producing numbers similar to guys like Clay Buchholz, Francisco Liraino, and Shields.
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This is NOT comparing value. This is saying their numbers are similar. Wood really does not have similar numbers to Shields. Does volume mean nothing?
 
zitothebrave said:
Wood is comparable to Shields over th elast 2 seasons.

Sure Shields goes deeper, but Wood comes into the game with essentailly and equivalent xFIP to Shields, sure Shields goes deeper, but it's not massive, it's 6.4 IP per start vs 6.2 .Not a massive difference. Less than 10 innings per year.

Sure there's value to Shields in terms of what he's proven, but even if we remove a third of Shields's value for that still makes Wood worth about 4/50 on the open market if you compare them in that regard.
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It's not just about IP per start, though. It takes a lot to throw 230 innings. When Wood hits that ONCE we can talk. He hasn't had the starts yet, fine. But it matters, and big time.
 
yeezus said:
This is NOT comparing value. This is saying their numbers are similar. Wood really does not have similar numbers to Shields. Does volume mean nothing?
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Again, the reason they don't have similar numbers is cause Wood has less starts. If they have equivalent starts Wood has close to as many IP and his advantage is likely way higher.
 
zitothebrave said:
Again, the reason they don't have similar numbers is cause Wood has less starts. If they have equivalent starts Wood has close to as many IP and his advantage is likely way higher.
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Are we just assuming he'll be able to make that many starts, at that many innings per start, and at those numbers? Really? How many guys threw as many very solid innings as Shields has throughout his stretch? Not many. Are we just assuming Wood is going to be a guy like that? Please. That's asinine.
 
yeezus said:
Are we just assuming he'll be able to make that many starts, at that many innings per start, and at those numbers? Really? How many guys threw as many very solid innings as Shields has throughout his stretch? Not many. Are we just assuming Wood is going to be a guy like that? Please. That's asinine.
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Going deep into games is definitely a unique trait. One that it doesn't appear wood has at this time.
 
yeezus said:
I've posted stuff from Badler and a guy at FG who like the deal, but Badler especially.
I guess he's a Braves homer. Or we'll see a post from giles discrediting him.
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All I remember seeing was that folks thought it was an OK deal as long as Olivera performs.

I didn't see anybody saying the Braves won the deal
 
thethe said:
You know exactly what kind of thing it is.
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You complain about me - but this is getting so old.

I've literally supported probably 60% of the moves we made.

I like Olivera a lot. I'd like him a lot more if we had with Wood and Peraza (i.e. sign him). And that was before he basically missed an entire season due to more injury

The cost to obtain him was absurd
 
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