Hector Olivera signs with the Dodgers

(2) I'm not going to scrounge and find a link from 3 months ago... but I know many others on here also saw the publications that were linked on THIS forum that stated the Braves were more interested in Olivera before Moncada was even declared a free agent. Its not my problem if you don't choose to go back and find them or chose not to read them in the first place.

As far as the other positions... (1) scouts don't seem to think Olivera playing 3rd or OF will be a problem... so I tend to trust the professional's opinions rather than your speculation.

(3) As far as the penalties for Moncada... I may have been wrong... that was the number I had remembered. Still... Olivera has proven he can play at a higher level than Moncada and will come in immediately and help. Moncada will need a year or two in the minors. And Tomas is just not that good outside of power.

(1) Is that not what I said? "The prevailing sentiment is that he SHOULD be able to handle a move to 3B or LF, and while most see little reason to doubt that, I think they'd also like to SEE it instead of guess he won't have issues".

(2) Since you're calling for less speculation, is it that much to ask for you to provide a link to back up your "facts"? There are actually more questions about how good he'll be at 2B...

"Some scouts think he’s a solid defender at second who can make the routine plays, though he doesn’t have the range of a typical smaller, quick-foot second baseman."

“He’s a big leaguer, he can rake, I’m just not sure it’s a given he can just slide in at second base. I didn’t see the agility for second base, I didn’t see that quickness. Playing up the middle in the big leagues isn’t easy. He’s got plenty of arm strength, but he’s not Cano, that’s not what you’re getting there.”

http://www.baseballamerica.com/international/hector-olivera-scouting-report/

"Olivera is exempt from the international bonus pools and compares favorably to the two top recent Cuban signings who received major league contracts, Tomas and Castillo. Olivera is much more polished than Tomas, with less power but a swing more conducive to hitting for average, with superior pitch recognition and plate discipline, although less power. He has a better track record of hitting and more useable game power than Castillo, although less speed, athleticism and defensive value."

(3) If your memory was $17 million off about the amount Moncada signed for, is it unfair to ask you to provide a link to show that you might not be confused about something you say you read 3 months ago? Brian Williams "remembered" the helicopter he was flying in when he was covering the war for NBC got fired at.

The point remains - there's little question that he'd definitely help us, just don't be disappointed if there are holes in his game. This is the entire reason the Braves don't seem to be willing to give him anything close to $50 million. They're still trying to dig out from under the $75 million they gave Melvin and the $52 million they gave Uggla - two other players that had holes but who also had a track record of success against significantly better competition than Olivera has faced thus far. Many here hated the Callaspo signing because the professionals' opinions about his ability to play defense at 2B are exactly the same as they are about Olivera (and always were about Uggla for that matter). If those are valid, you wind up paying both of them PLUS Johnson when all 3 need to be at 3B.
 
I don't recall ever claiming Olivera would come in and have zero holes in his game. I actually recall stating the risk fairly accurately. At $10 - $15 million a year... his potential is worth the risk. Anything more... I agree with you. But he does have the potential and upside to be a franchise player for at least 2-4 years... whether he realizes that potential or not is another question. Whether he stays healthy is another question. But if you can get 2-4 years of franchise potential from a guy who you think can be flexible position wise at $10 - $15 million a year, you do it. Cute Brian Williams comment, btw...
 
I don't recall ever claiming Olivera would come in and have zero holes in his game. I actually recall stating the risk fairly accurately. At $10 - $15 million a year... his potential is worth the risk. Anything more... I agree with you. But he does have the potential and upside to be a franchise player for at least 2-4 years... whether he realizes that potential or not is another question. Whether he stays healthy is another question. But if you can get 2-4 years of franchise potential from a guy who you think can be flexible position wise at $10 - $15 million a year, you do it. Cute Brian Williams comment, btw...

And apparently the profesionals in the Braves' organization disagree with you because they clearly aren't willing to pay him $15 million/year and have offered less than $10 million per to this point.
 
clvclv, the $63m that the Red Sox paid for Moncada is just the signing bonus and penalty. The total cost of his "under control" years should also include his salary. I'll take a stab at full cost with the assumption that he ends up being a solid regular (not a franchise player) . . .

Signing bonus: $31.5m

100% penalty: $31.5m

0-2 service time: $2m

1st arb year: $4m

2nd arb year: $8m

3rd arb year: $12m

That's $89m for six year of control. So much of the $ is up front, that the net present value is more equivalent to a 6 / $100m free agent deal.
 
And apparently the profesionals in the Braves' organization disagree with you because they clearly aren't willing to pay him $15 million/year and have offered less than $10 million per to this point.

You have no idea what we have offered or will offer. All news we've heard is secondhand and speculation. Guess facts are only important to you when its convenient for you.
 
clvclv, the $63m that the Red Sox paid for Moncada is just the signing bonus and penalty. The total cost of his "under control" years should also include his salary. I'll take a stab at full cost with the assumption that he ends up being a solid regular (not a franchise player) . . .

Signing bonus: $31.5m
100% penalty: $31.5m
0-2 service time: $2m
1st arb year: $4m
2nd arb year: $8m
3rd arb year: $12m

That's $89m for six year of control. So much of the $ is up front, that the net present value is more equivalent to a 6 / $100m free agent deal.

Guess my memory wasn't too bad afterall...
 
You have no idea what we have offered or will offer. All news we've heard is secondhand and speculation. Guess facts are only important to you when its convenient for you.

That is partially correct. What we "know" is that they aren't going to offer him $50 million according to every published report, and no one has disputed that. That's the same information everyone here has to draw conclusions from unless you have inside knowledge that hasn't been reported.
 
Guess my memory wasn't too bad afterall...

Which apparently means the Red Sox think Moncada's worth twice what the Braves have reportedly offered Olivera, no???

"Oh and if you add in penalties... Moncada would have cost more like ~$80 I believe." was your original quote, word-for-word. The signing bonus was $31.5 million and the penalty was $31.5 million. Pretty tough to read your mind since you never mentioned salaries.
 
clvclv, the $63m that the Red Sox paid for Moncada is just the signing bonus and penalty. The total cost of his "under control" years should also include his salary. I'll take a stab at full cost with the assumption that he ends up being a solid regular (not a franchise player) . . .

Signing bonus: $31.5m
100% penalty: $31.5m
0-2 service time: $2m
1st arb year: $4m
2nd arb year: $8m
3rd arb year: $12m

That's $89m for six year of control. So much of the $ is up front, that the net present value is more equivalent to a 6 / $100m free agent deal.

I never questioned that, but you're absolutely right.
 
Which apparently means the Red Sox think Moncada's worth twice what the Braves have reportedly offered Olivera, no???

"Oh and if you add in penalties... Moncada would have cost more like ~$80 I believe." was your original quote, word-for-word. The signing bonus was $31.5 million and the penalty was $31.5 million. Pretty tough to read your mind since you never mentioned salaries.

Sometimes... you're insufferable even though I love you
 
That is partially correct. What we "know" is that they aren't going to offer him $50 million according to every published report, and no one has disputed that. That's the same information everyone here has to draw conclusions from unless you have inside knowledge that hasn't been reported.

The only inside report quoting we wouldn't go $50 million was DOB... all other reports were citing him as the source. Forgive me if I don't have complete confidence in DOB.
 
The only inside report quoting we wouldn't go $50 million was DOB... all other reports were citing him as the source. Forgive me if I don't have complete confidence in DOB.

Actually I was referring to Heyman (who I put more faith in than DOB), but he and DOB could conceivably have gotten that feel from the same source.

"The Braves are considering increasing their bid for Olivera slightly, but it still won’t approach $50MM, according to Jon Heyman of CBSSports.com. Heyman notes the Braves, whose comfort level with Olivera is reportedly in the $30-40MM range, is counting on non-monetary incentives to help their bid like having a pair of Cuban natives on their staff, manager Fredi Gonzalez and bench coach Carlos Tosca."

http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/writer...-may-up-bid-but-wont-hit-50m----la-sd-threats
 
Surprised Olivera hasn't signed yet. Opening Day is in only 19 days, so the chances of him being ready to start the season are getting slim. Even if he signed today, he would still have to take his physical, and assuming that goes well (no sure thing), he then would have to report to camp. That would take at least a couple days, so as of today, he is down to at most around 14 spring training games.
 
Surprised Olivera hasn't signed yet. Opening Day is in only 19 days, so the chances of him being ready to start the season are getting slim. Even if he signed today, he would still have to take his physical, and assuming that goes well (no sure thing), he then would have to report to camp. That would take at least a couple days, so as of today, he is down to at most around 14 spring training games.

Sure, but I assume that his new agent isn't going to want to sign a deal before the ink on his own contract is even dry.
 
This looks like a leak from Olivera's agent to Heyman, so who knows that to believe. It kinds of reads like on open letter to the Braves to raise their offer.

"LAKE BUENA VISTA, Fla. – The Braves have offered a four-year deal to star Cuban free agent Hector Olivera, but at least the Padres, Giants and bigger-spending Dodgers are in the mix and multiple teams are thought to be offering five years. The A's and Marlins also have been connected to Olivera, though it isn't known how involved those teams are.

Olivera, a third baseman by trade, is said to be shooting for six years, and while one bidding participant thought that sounded a little “steep,” Olivera put on such terrific hitting demonstrations at workouts that six years can't be ruled out. Olivera is a 10-year veteran at 29, so it makes sense he seeks a longer deal.

The Braves' offer was said to be for $40 million over four years, but they are “behind the pack,” according to someone familiar with the negotiations. Some of the five-year offers are believed to be in the $50-million range, if not higher. The Dodgers and Padres bids are not known."


http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/writer...ers-five-for-olivera-whos-said-to-aim-for-six
 
Also notable from the Heyman article . . .

Olivera is “likely” to have a deal by the end of the week, said his agent Greg Genske.
 
If we do end up signing Olivera, he better not be playing 2nd and knock Jace out, cause that guy is really tough and needs to be starting on this team. Olivera needs to play either 3rd or left field if we get him.
 
If we do end up signing Olivera, he better not be playing 2nd and knock Jace out, cause that guy is really tough and needs to be starting on this team. Olivera needs to play either 3rd or left field if we get him.

lol we aren't signing him so we can trot out some garbage player instead.
 
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