Rosenthal: Fredi will be fired, possibly by end of the road trip

I hate to see Fredi get the axe like this with as embarassing of a roster we have.

Part of me doesn't want to see Fredi gone because it's one of the last true passing of the torch links with the old days. If we hire Bud Black or someone outside of the org it will be a huge change. And all I've known in my life is Bobby managing and Fredi, who makes just as much questionable decisions as Bobby did. Fredi for the most part has managed almost identically to Bobby. Whomever comes in next if be I hope will receive the same scrutiny from those here wanting Fredi gone as long as they have. Also hope they don't make worse decisions.
 
goldfly said:
I'm not saying he would have come here etc

I'm saying it's absurd that you don't even talk to him. see what he wants and his thoughts etc

when someone like that becomes available, you at least talk to them to see your chances

our FO came out and said they weren't going to talk to him
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this is so silly. it was known by pretty much everyone he opted out to go to Chicago. he was never going anywhere else, and everyone in baseball knew it. it's such a dumb complaint to have.
 
What's also silly is taking everything the FO says to the media at face value. OMG they said they wasn't gunna tlk to him?!? what idiots! for all we know, they called his agent right away and were told he already had plans (which he did...and everyone knew it, which is why as soon as he opted out everyone yelled "CUBS"). It's pretty obvious the FO of any organization doesn't often show their hand to the media, so in reality we really never know what's going on behind closed doors. But it's fun to pretend we do, I guess, and to get mad about it.
 
I think too many people (especially the national writers) are putting too much emphasis on this year as the reason Fredi is on the hot seat. I don't think that's really a fair assessment of the situation.

I'm pretty sure the team entered this season with the plan that Fredi wasn't going to be the manager in 2017. However, it didn't make a lot of sense to fire him in the offseason. It can be difficult to attract top managerial talent when your roster has the issues the Braves' does. Also, you don't really want to hire a new manager and have him fall flat on his face. It made more sense to at least start 2016 with Fredi.

So I think that was the plan. Let Fredi start 2016 but with the idea that he's probably going to be fired. It gives him one last chance to show he's the guy and if he doesn't, you move on. Your default is that he's going to be fired and you make him have to prove you wrong.

So if Fredi is fired soon, it wont be because of 2016. It will be because of his failures in his tenure here. Too often under him the team has simply quit, he's not a great bench strategist, and he's not had his teams overachieve very often. He's not done anything this year to make the team second guess that.

It's true that no manager alive could have coached this roster to a winning record. But what has happened this year has more to do with timing than with motivation. If we fire him today it will be because it has become so clear he's not going to survive that it will be a kindness to go ahead and end it.
 
striker42 said:
I think too many people (especially the national writers) are putting too much emphasis on this year as the reason Fredi is on the hot seat. I don't think that's really a fair assessment of the situation.

I'm pretty sure the team entered this season with the plan that Fredi wasn't going to be the manager in 2017. However, it didn't make a lot of sense to fire him in the offseason. It can be difficult to attract top managerial talent when your roster has the issues the Braves' does. Also, you don't really want to hire a new manager and have him fall flat on his face. It made more sense to at least start 2016 with Fredi.

So I think that was the plan. Let Fredi start 2016 but with the idea that he's probably going to be fired. It gives him one last chance to show he's the guy and if he doesn't, you move on. Your default is that he's going to be fired and you make him have to prove you wrong.

So if Fredi is fired soon, it wont be because of 2016. It will be because of his failures in his tenure here. Too often under him the team has simply quit, he's not a great bench strategist, and he's not had his teams overachieve very often. He's not done anything this year to make the team second guess that.

It's true that no manager alive could have coached this roster to a winning record. But what has happened this year has more to do with timing than with motivation. If we fire him today it will be because it has become so clear he's not going to survive that it will be a kindness to go ahead and end it.
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I don't know if that's on Fredi or the players, but it has become a disturbing pattern. Could be a respect thing.

My only consistent beef with Gonzalez has been his use of the bullpen. Plays the match-up thing too often and depletes who is available, which leads to overworking some guys. Sometimes you have to roll with a guy through an entire inning instead of going righty-lefty-righty and blowing three pieces. If you're ahead in a close game, that's one thing and a pattern like that can be justifiable. But if it's April and you're down six runs, let the guy go.
 
50PoundHead said:
I don't know if that's on Fredi or the players, but it has become a disturbing pattern. Could be a respect thing.

My only consistent beef with Gonzalez has been his use of the bullpen. Plays the match-up thing too often and depletes who is available, which leads to overworking some guys. Sometimes you have to roll with a guy through an entire inning instead of going righty-lefty-righty and blowing three pieces. If you're ahead in a close game, that's one thing and a pattern like that can be justifiable. But if it's April and you're down six runs, let the guy go.
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My biggest issue with him is that he does not take up for his players.
 
striker42 said:
Didn't he throw Alex Wood under the bus after Wood got tossed by a completely unreasonable umpire?
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Yes. Fredi stated that he didn't realize the situation got that bad, but that Alex has to control himself better.

That's the biggest difference between Fredi and Bobby. Bobby would have been tossed before Alex Wood had gotten to the point of getting tossed.
 
striker42 said:
Didn't he throw Alex Wood under the bus after Wood got tossed by a completely unreasonable umpire?
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That is one of the worst moments of his tenure, IMO. Similar thing happened to Freddie Freeman. He got tossed by Joe West (?) for griping at him from his position at 1B after arguing balls and strikes in the last half inning. Fredi should have disarmed the situation before it started, but instead he wasn't even aware of what was going on until it was too late.
 
Julio3000 said:
That is one of the worst moments of his tenure, IMO. Similar thing happened to Freddie Freeman. He got tossed by Joe West (?) for griping at him from his position at 1B after arguing balls and strikes in the last half inning. Fredi should have disarmed the situation before it started, but instead he wasn't even aware of what was going on until it was too late.
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and this is why I'm over him. Tactical mistakes... eh, shouldn't happen, but then again, relievers shouldn't be hanging sliders - even if they're being used in the wrong situation. I'm willing to acknowledge that the game moves faster when you're in the dugout - even as I criticize Fredi for not catching up to the speed of the game.

But, if the coach's main job is clubhouse and personnel management (and i believe it is), his ONLY job is to get thrown out of the game defending his players.
 
striker42 said:
I think too many people (especially the national writers) are putting too much emphasis on this year as the reason Fredi is on the hot seat. I don't think that's really a fair assessment of the situation.

I'm pretty sure the team entered this season with the plan that Fredi wasn't going to be the manager in 2017. However, it didn't make a lot of sense to fire him in the offseason. It can be difficult to attract top managerial talent when your roster has the issues the Braves' does. Also, you don't really want to hire a new manager and have him fall flat on his face. It made more sense to at least start 2016 with Fredi.

So I think that was the plan. Let Fredi start 2016 but with the idea that he's probably going to be fired. It gives him one last chance to show he's the guy and if he doesn't, you move on. Your default is that he's going to be fired and you make him have to prove you wrong.

So if Fredi is fired soon, it wont be because of 2016. It will be because of his failures in his tenure here. Too often under him the team has simply quit, he's not a great bench strategist, and he's not had his teams overachieve very often. He's not done anything this year to make the team second guess that.

It's true that no manager alive could have coached this roster to a winning record. But what has happened this year has more to do with timing than with motivation. If we fire him today it will be because it has become so clear he's not going to survive that it will be a kindness to go ahead and end it.
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Well done, Striker. I've chafed as some of us have questioned every strategic move he makes and says he should (for instance) put in Jeff Francoeur as a defensive replacement for Adonis Garcia. Who ****ing cares? Jesus Christ couldn't manage this team to more than about 60 wins.

So I defend him, but I don't want to. I don't like giving away outs with bunts, I like decisive moves even if they blow up sometimes, I have a certain vision of how a bullpen could be efficiently managed, and I sure as hell like a manager who protects and fights for his players. And Fredi loves to bunt, isn't decisive, seems to struggle with bullpen decisions, doesn't argue much, etc.

My point with my defense is that the primary failures of the team are a direct result of the Johns making poor decisions and cutting the roster to the quick. They actually could have rebuilt on the fly a little bit by stopping last year after spring training. There was not much reason to make the incredibly risky and stupid Olivera/Wood deal and deal KJ and Uribe and a few other legit major league players. Unless you feel like we had to have lame Paco and Gant.

So, like you, I'm sick of watching them let him twist, and leaking this "unnamed sources" ****. Its probably that pussy Coppalella himself. Fredi probably needs to go. But it's to get a fresh voice in there to create a different feel and culture, not because we suck. Fredi is fine tuning and window dressing. We suck because of John Coppalella.

And I hope when they do make Fredi walk the plank, our little fantasy GM doesn't think that turns down the flame under his ass. Because I know why this team sucks and will for a while, and it ain't Fredi.
 
KB21 said:
Yes. Fredi stated that he didn't realize the situation got that bad, but that Alex has to control himself better.

That's the biggest difference between Fredi and Bobby. Bobby would have been tossed before Alex Wood had gotten to the point of getting tossed.
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Yeah, that was bull****. Get your lardass out there and ream that ump and give that kid some help.

I still think Wood could be a successful ML starter. And he should be figuring that out in Atlanta, not LA, where they're trying to win a pennant with a bloated payroll and ****ty pitching (beyond the obvious guys).
 
Julio3000 said:
That is one of the worst moments of his tenure, IMO. Similar thing happened to Freddie Freeman. He got tossed by Joe West (?) for griping at him from his position at 1B after arguing balls and strikes in the last half inning. Fredi should have disarmed the situation before it started, but instead he wasn't even aware of what was going on until it was too late.
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No bueno. What the hell was that? Too much "X needs to learn to control himself."

Baseball is a hard game. It's hard on the emotions. One way a manager can make a real - if intangible - difference is by going out there and fighting for his guys.

Freddie Freeman doesn't need you to point out his shortcomings in the AJC. He needs you to go tell Joe West in overly strong terms to call a fair ****ing game. And to kick dirt on that asshole's shoes and to steal third base and take it into the clubhouse on the way out.

And if you've got something to say to Freddie, to say it in your office and then give the big guy a hug.
 
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